Curious about pricing



  • Just straight-up curiosity -- why is the Duet 2 Ethernet 10% more expensive than the Duet 2 Wi-Fi? Is it as simple as the Ethernet components cost more than the Wi-Fi components? I would have expected the reverse, what with Wi-Fi being both newer and fancier. 😛



  • Schematics and stuff is freely available to look into it. Wifi part is made from about half the components compared to the Ethernet, so just the assembly would cost (relatively) (much) more.

    I cant say for sure what they are paying for the various components, but I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Wifi module cost less than just the Ethernet connector thanks to Espressif's dirt cheap ESP8266 wifi chip for IoT applications.


  • administrators

    @logic said in Curious about pricing:

    Just straight-up curiosity -- why is the Duet 2 Ethernet 10% more expensive than the Duet 2 Wi-Fi? Is it as simple as the Ethernet components cost more than the Wi-Fi components? I would have expected the reverse, what with Wi-Fi being both newer and fancier. 😛

    Yes. The ESP8266 WiFi module costs very little. For the Ethernet version there is the W5500 chip, the RJ45 socket with built in magnetics, the crystal, the daughter board and a number of passive components.



  • As well as the added components, the Ethernet board was a result of complaints (from users like me) that Ethernet wasn't an option. Paying a bit more for a company to develop the exact product you want is fine by me -- works well for everybody. So part of the cost increases is due to the fact that they had to develop a product they didn't plan to, and perhaps does not have as good of a cost/profit ratio (due to lower volume, potentially).



  • .. and then they made the Duet 2 Maestro Ethernet only, would suggest there is enough demand for Ethernet based boards? (Although I'm starting to reget not getting the wifi board:)



  • @bearer said in Curious about pricing:

    I'm starting to reget not getting the wifi board:)

    What transfer speed do you get when uploading .gcode files using the web interface to your ethernet duet?

    I am getting about 200KiB/s with a wifi interface.



  • @zapta said in Curious about pricing:

    What transfer speed do you get when uploading .gcode files using the web interface to your ethernet duet?

    Around 200KB/s i think, but I wouldn't be surprised if the bottleneck is my wifii or even the computer, both are past due an upgrade and require regular percussive maintenance. ^^

    (Edit: if there is any large files you want me to do a benchmark with I'll be happy to try something beyond the relatively small files I usually print. 120x120x120mm build volume does limit things a bit:)

    ((Edit2: Duet 2 Maestro: 0.345 MiB/s(Average, StdDev=0.057) Uploaded 50MiB 6 times ))



  • The limit for the Duet boards on transfer speed is the limited amount of ram available for use as a buffer before writing to the SD card.


  • administrators

    @bearer said in Curious about pricing:

    .. and then they made the Duet 2 Maestro Ethernet only, would suggest there is enough demand for Ethernet based boards? (Although I'm starting to reget not getting the wifi board:)

    The OEM that we worked with (M3D) when designing the Maestro wanted Ethernet, not WiFi. A WiFi version wouldn't have worked will in the metal enclosure that they use.

    I hope we will have time to do a WiFi version of the Maestro soon.



  • Makes sense, Wi-Fi Maestro with u.fl. and TMC2209 would be nice once the Duet 3 dust settles 😍


  • administrators

    @zapta said in Curious about pricing:

    @bearer said in Curious about pricing:

    I'm starting to reget not getting the wifi board:)

    What transfer speed do you get when uploading .gcode files using the web interface to your ethernet duet?

    I am getting about 200KiB/s with a wifi interface.

    That's low. With a strong signal, 800kbits/sec is typical for both the WiFi and Ethernet versions. It's affected by both the WiFi signal strength and the SD card.

    To see whether the SD card or the network connection is the limiting factor, you can use M122 P104 to test the speed of writing to the SD card, see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M122_Diagnose. I get around 2.5Mbytes/sec for files between 10Mb and 40Mb.


  • administrators

    @bearer said in Curious about pricing:

    Makes sense, Wi-Fi Maestro with u.fl. and TMC2209 would be nice once the Duet 3 dust settles 😍

    Yes, we're looking at the TMC2209 as well.



  • @dc42 said in Curious about pricing:

    To see whether the SD card or the network connection is the limiting factor, you can use M122 P104 to test the speed of writing to the SD card, see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M122_Diagnose. I get around 2.5Mbytes/sec for files between 10Mb and 40Mb.

    ouch.. mine was around 0.6Mbytes/sec, my second on was the same.
    Had another one around for use in a pi3, putting that into the duet got me to around 2.5Mbytes/sec too.
    Another issue fixed ☺ ... Time to buy another SD card for my pi3 then.



  • @dc42 said in Curious about pricing:

    That's low. With a strong signal, 800kbits/sec is typical for both the WiFi and Ethernet versions.

    I tried the M122 P104 command and it gives me 2.28Mbytes/sec. I presume that the same as 2.28KiB/s which is roughly x10 times faster than the transfer rate I get through the web UI.

    I tried once to move the printer, computer and router next to each other but no significant change in speed. I wouldn't mind to wait a little bit for upload but with large files Slic3r timeouts which requires me to do a more manual transfer.



  • Unless someone made a typo with bytes/bits vs B/b 2.28KiB/s is 1/1024th of 2.28Mbytes/sec.

    Kibibytes (KiB)	Megabytes (MB)
    2^10 bytes	10^6 bytes
    1,024 bytes	1,000,000 bytes
    1,024 × 8 bits	1,000,000 × 8 bits
    8,192 bits	8,000,000 bits
    

    (from https://www.gbmb.org/kib-to-mb)

    I.e the i in KiB indicates its a "binary kilo" as opposed to an SI kilo, the B indicates bytes. A lower case b would indicate bits which would add a factor of 8



  • @bearer said in Curious about pricing:

    Unless someone made a typo with bytes/bits vs B/b 2.28KiB/s is 1/1024th of 2.28Mbytes/sec.

    Good catch. I meant SD writes 2.28Mbytes/sec which is about 2.28MiB/s which is about X10 of the 200KiB/s which I get from Web UI upload.



  • Just got the Maestro online to try myself, around 2MB/s for the SD card (not the fastest card). Unless the Maestro is expected to be slower due to lower specs then I can't say it adds up, being on a wired connection and the computer should be able to saturate the card speed.

    Anyways, moot point for me, its plenty fast for the small prints I do.


  • administrators

    The SD card write speed on the Maestro may be a little slower because the SD card interface runs at 15Mbytes/sec vs. 20Mbytes/sec on the WiFi/Ethernet. Also the SD card supplied with the Maestro may have a lower specification.



  • Good to know!


 

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