core x y stepper noise

Aztazticz

Hey guys first post here, picked up my first duet the other day.(duet 3) setup has been going reasonably well.
But I have discovered a weird fault.
When moving print head in a horizontal or towards back/front at a speed of 6000mm/m both steppers make a hell of a lot of noise/vibration if I change speed up or down (even by only 400mm/m) the noise disappears and print head moves quietly as I’d expect.

Now if I make the same speed move in a diagonal direction so that only one stepper is turning it runs smooth and quiet as I’d expect.

I have motor current set to 700, standard nema17 40mm

This is my first core x y aswell so this may be something silly I’m over looking.

Anyway cheers for any help!

deckingman

@Aztazticz 100mm/sec isn't much - I use 350 for non-print moves. Wondering if you've found some sort of resonant frequency. Have you tried higher? Also, does it make the noise during the acceleration or steady state phases or both?

Aztazticz

@deckingman that’s what I’m thinking, some type of resonate. As I go past 100mm/s To about 110 the noise disappears. I have tested all the way up to 200mm/s movement and it stays quiet.

So I just tested if I put the nozzle at x200 y0 and issue a g1 x200 y200 f6000 noise is loud (both steppers at same speed during move)

But if I issue g1 x150 y200 f6000 (from x200y0) The stepper speed isn't matched the noise is gone.

This is driving me crazy

Printers not quiet at a state where I can print but I’d hate if I’d have to avoid 100mm/s

deckingman

@Aztazticz Hmmm. Difficult to know what to suggest. 50mm is quite a short move so if your accelerations are set low, then it might be that the motors are either accelerating or decelerating but never at a steady stats. If that is the case then M593 might help https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M593_Configure_Dynamic_Acceleration_Adjustment. Or increase acceleration if you can/ if the motors can take it.

It might be an idea if you post your entire config.g file and also the motor spec (at least the rated current), then maybe one of us could make some other suggestions.

mrehorstdmd

If the belts are off the XY stage, is the X axis square with the Y axis? Does everything move smoothly and easily?

Aztazticz

@deckingman here is my config.g , and motors are off an old anet printer im pretty sure, number on them are 42SHDC3025-24B. i tried lowering current down to 300 and it deffintly improves the noise.

@mrehorstdmd not sure what you mean but this is the 3d model of my printer Capture1.PNG, everything is square and runs freely!
Here is video of a diagonal move and horizontal at 100mm/s if i make horizontal move at a speed higher then 120mm/s or lower then 80mm/s it quiet and smooth like the diagonal move

i duno if i set dropbox up correct but here are the 2 videos https://www.dropbox.com/sh/c1bn42uj9zup4s2/AADtCYknrRCn-dHQ3HnCWHNUa?dl=0

deckingman

@Aztazticz Nothing obvious leaps out at me from your configuration. I wouldn't have thought that it's a mechanical issue because it would be unlikely to get quieter if you increase speed (but nothing is impossible). I did a quick internet search for the stepper motor and found that the rated current is 900mA. In an ideal world we would use about 85% of that in which case 700mA should be fine.

Have you tried using G1 moves with the H2 parameter? On a CoreXY this will use a single motor so you'll get 45 degree moves. But if you do G1 H2 Xnnn F6000 then the same thing but substitute X for Y, do you get the same noise with each motor or just one?

Aztazticz

@deckingman Thank you, that gcode helped narrow it down. turns out its the right stepper, it vibrating as it rotates $:\$

So i tried a spare stepper i had laying around... same thing, i tried plugging it into another stepper driver and it worked fine so that rules out that stepper motor being at fault.

I also tried a different stepper cable.. same thing. problem appears to be in stepper driver 1. i wonder if i have a faulty bored or is there something in my config causing it to act up.

edit:
one thing i have noticed is i am running 3 steppers for z axis does this part look correct? do i need to have a M569 for all z drivers


; Drives
M569 P0.0 S1                                 ; physical drive 0.0 goes forwards
M569 P0.1 S1                                 ; physical drive 0.1 goes forwards
M569 P0.2 S1                                 ; physical drive 0.2 goes forwards
M569 P0.3 S1                                 ; physical drive 0.3 goes forwards
M584 X0.0 Y0.1 Z0.2:4:5 E0.3                 ; set drive mapping Z on 2, 4, 5

Veti

@Aztazticz said in core x y stepper noise:

M584 X0.0 Y0.1 Z0.2:4:5 E0.3 ; set drive mapping Z on 2, 4, 5

it should be
M584 X0.0 Y0.1 Z0.2:0.4:0.5 E0.3 ; set drive mapping Z on 2, 4, 5

zapta

Aztazticz@, had similar problem with my HEVO build, noise and rattling at certain speed that is difficult to pinpoint. Took me long time to realize that it has nothing to do with the movement mechanism and is caused X/Y motors vibrating and getting the stiff 3030 frame into resonance.

I propose this experiment:

IMPORTANT: disengage the belts from the X/Y motors such that nothing moves when the motors turn.
Run a gcode script like the one below to exercise one motor at a time. play with the F parameters (speed) to reproduce the noise.
Once you can reproduce the noise, remove the motor from the frame, hold it suspended in your hand, and repeat #2. It should be quiet now.

G91   ; relative
; Move motor at different speeds.
; Use X for motor 1, Y for motor 2
; These moves do not require homing.
G1 X300 H2 F2400 
G1 X300 H2 F2600  
G1 X300 H2 F2800 
G1 X300 H2 F3000 
G1 X300 H2 F3200  
; ...

In my case installing this damper completely eliminated the noise (I installed the X damper last night, will install the Y today).

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GWN6V89

Aztazticz

@zapta cool thanks corrected that part !
nah this definitely has to be an issue with the stepper driver. i have the motor in my hand, when running it on the y stepper driver (driver 1) it rotates and appears to have torque as i cant stop it by hand but at the same time it is vibrating and noisy. plugging the same motor into the x stepper driver (with same cable) its silent with zero vibration $:\$

zapta

@Aztazticz, if I got it correctly (?) you eliminated mechanical issues, frame, rails, bearings, etc and it's just between the motor and the duet. That's progress

Aztazticz

@zapta appears to be that way, issue only seems to be on the one stepper driver, other driver (x driver_0) it runs smooth through bunch of different speeds.

Pretty upset tbh, bloody expensive bored and im seeing issues like this, my cheap skr boards never gave me trouble

zapta

@Aztazticz, hopefully somebody that knows the duet better will look at your config.h above and verify that Y channel is setup correctly.

Also, I am not that familiar with the duet, but does it have another unused driver (E2?) that can be used as a Y channel? This may get you going.

Worst case, if you think it's an hardware issue you can try the manufacturer warranty.

Aztazticz

It has 6 stepper drivers. I will be using all 6.

But just for another test I swapped the extruder and the problem driver and re connected all ssteppers and printers movements are smooth and quiet.

But I’m afraid running the extruder on the problem driver will inflict extruder issues

deckingman

@Aztazticz I'm just an end user like you so I have no authority but it does look to me like you have a faulty driver. You have proven that if you plug the offending motor into a different driver, the problem is fixed. Hopefully one of the Duet team will see this thread and react by authorising a warranty replacement or suggesting some other tests that you could try. If not, email the vendor or Duet3D directly and draw their attention to this thread.

EdIt. Just one thing. @Veti spotted an error with your drive mapping for the Z motors that I had missed (see his post above). Did you put that right? If not, do so and double check that you still have the problem.

Pertti

Same Duet2 problem here. I have two Y steppers and they are noisy unlike X stepper.
Y steppers were connected parallel and serial, no change.
Maybe I change Y driver to E1 driver. Can't stand the high frequency noise.

Pertti

I tried to change drives to Y motors, even different drives to each but no change in Y-noise.

Aztazticz

@deckingman Yeah i fixed that, it made no difference. even though there was an error, my 3 z steppers were still functioning correctly with g32. either way, config should be correct now.

anyway cheers for your help, its up to my vender/duet now i guess.

zapta

@Pertti said in core x y stepper noise:

Maybe I change Y driver to E1 driver. Can't stand the high frequency noise.

If you will continue isolating the problem, it will help you fixing it. For example:

Does it works better with another driver?
Does it make the noise when you hold the motor suspended in your hand?