Object got knocked over?



  • Hi *,

    I use my new build (ratrig corexy) to print some extensions for itself. I had to print a temp tower yesterday, the tower got knocked over by the nozzle at 72mm. I heard that grinding noise when the nozzle is to low.. well, I think that you know what I mean. I have other objects, from that printer, which are very close to the designated height. So I do net assume that the steps for z are completely wrong. I use the driver config from the ratrig duet examples.

    I measured the actual traveled distance when I "z-100" and it looked OKish to me. The bed may have raveled one millimeter more than is should, but the top of the lead screw is not flat, so I would not overrate that. And the the problems is not hat the bed travels to much obviously. The only explanation I have now is a inaccurate angle of the leadscrew to the bed. So I remeasured it a couple of times now and it seams very fine to me now.

    Hardware:
    Duet3 6hc Fw: 3.1.1
    Stepper sourced from ratrig, 1.8°
    Frame: Ratrig Rat Rig V-Core V2.0

    Snipit from the config.g

    ;; Drives
    ; XY
    M569 P0.0 S1									; physical drive 0.2 goes backwards - left motor
    M569 P0.2 S1									; physical drive 0.1 goes backwards - right motor
    
    ;Z
    M569 P0.3 S0									; physical drive 1.2 goes backwards - left motor
    M569 P0.4 S0									; physical drive 1.1 goes backwards - right motor
    M569 P0.5 S0									; physical drive 1.0 goes backwards - rear motor
    
    ; Extruder
    M569 P1.0 S0									; Extruder Motor
    
    
    M584 X0.0 Y0.2 Z0.3:0.4:0.5 E1.0				; set drive mapping
    M671 X-31.5:437.4:198.5 Y63:63:440 S30.0        ; Z-Level leadscrews at left (connected to E6(9)) and right (connected to E2) of X axis (S=MaxCorrection)
    
    
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1							; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E420.00				; set steps per mm
    M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z12.00 E120.00				; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X30000.00 Y30000.00 Z300.00 E1200.00		; set maximum speeds (mm/min) Z180
    M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z20.00 E250.00				; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X2000 Y2000 Z1000 E600 I30					; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30                                         ; Set idle timeout
    

    What else should I check?

    Cheers, Chriss



  • Over extrusion or blobs caused by incorrect retraction or pressure advance could cause that. Only takes a tiny bit of plastic sticking up that the nozzle can hit. If it's in a fast travel move it can easily dislodge a small part, especially if bed adhesion is marginal.
    How smooth is the first layer?



  • @OwenD said in Object got knocked over?:

    Well, all of my stinging and extrusion tests came out good.

    How smooth is the first layer?

    The first layer was very flat, even, smooth and looked very good to me. ( I have no picture at the moment and the printer is busy at the moment.)



  • Here are two pictures from the first layer:
    IMG_20201101_015212.jpg IMG_20201101_015157.jpg


  • Moderator

    That looks a bit over extruded but only on that one corner, which could mean the bed isn't very level or flat. Have you done a G29 to map out the bed surface?



  • @Phaedrux

    Which corner do you mean?


  • Moderator

    The back right one that looks rough as if the nozzle were too close.



  • @Phaedrux

    Well... yes, maybe. But why should have that impact at a part at 72mm height than? II mean so hard that the nozzle knocked over the part? I have to mention that my temp tower was much smaller than that first layer.


  • Moderator

    Well I didn't see a photo of the failed print, just the first layer and that's what I noticed.

    Over a long print a small amount of over extrusion can result in quite a bit.

    I assume you've been through this calibration?

    https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Guide/Ender+3+Pro+and+Duet+Maestro+Guide+Part+4:+Calibration/40



  • @Phaedrux said in Object got knocked over?:

    I assume you've been through this calibration?

    Oh yes... I did.. I learned that drill with my CR10 already. 😉

    Her the bottom of the knocked over print:
    IMG_20201101_022241.jpg

    Her the top:
    IMG_20201101_022221.jpg

    Cheers, Chriss


  • Moderator

    Well it does look like it got stuck at the blob there.

    Was this being printed as a temperature tower with varying temps?



  • @Phaedrux

    Yes it was


  • Moderator

    What temp did it fail on?


  • Moderator

    Can you post your full config.g?

    Did you happen to get a heater fault message?



  • @Phaedrux 195°



  • @Phaedrux
    I did not get a error message... why?

    ; Configuration file for Duet 3 (firmware version 3)
    ; executed by the firmware on start-up
    ;
    ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.1.1 on Thu Jun 04 2020 17:41:46 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time)
    
    ; General preferences
    G90												; send absolute coordinates...
    M83												; ...but relative extruder moves
    M550 P"Blimy"									; set printer name
    M669 K1											; select CoreXY mode
    
    ;; Drives
    ; XY
    M569 P0.0 S1									; physical drive 0.2 goes backwards - left motor
    M569 P0.2 S1									; physical drive 0.1 goes backwards - right motor
    
    ;Z
    M569 P0.3 S0									; physical drive 1.2 goes backwards - left motor
    M569 P0.4 S0									; physical drive 1.1 goes backwards - right motor
    M569 P0.5 S0									; physical drive 1.0 goes backwards - rear motor
    
    ; Extruder
    M569 P1.0 S0									; Extruder Motor
    
    
    M584 X0.0 Y0.2 Z0.3:0.4:0.5 E1.0				; set drive mapping
    M671 X-31.5:437.4:198.5 Y63:63:440 S30.0        ; Z-Level leadscrews at left (connected to E6(9)) and right (connected to E2) of X axis (S=MaxCorrection)
    
    
    M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1							; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z400.00 E420.00				; set steps per mm
    M566 X900.00 Y900.00 Z12.00 E120.00				; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X30000.00 Y30000.00 Z300.00 E1200.00		; set maximum speeds (mm/min) Z180
    M201 X500.00 Y500.00 Z20.00 E250.00				; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X2000 Y2000 Z1000 E600 I30					; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30                                         ; Set idle timeout
    
    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1                                ; set axis minima
    M208 X380 Y360 Z400 S0                          ; set axis maxima
    
    ;; Endstops         ##################### TODO
    M574 X1 S1 P"!0.io1.in"		;Induktions geber X1=low end   ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via pin io2.in
    M574 Y2 S1 P"!0.io2.in"		;Induktions geber Y2=High end   ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Y via pin io1.in
    M574 Z1 S2													; Configure Z-probe endstop for low end on Z
    
    
    
    ;; Z-Probe
    ; BL Touch:
    M950 S0 C"0.io4.out"                         ; create servo pin 0 for BLTouch
    M558 P9 C"0.io4.in" H5 F120 T6000          	; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
    G31 P500 X0 Y30 Z2.12		                ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger heigh
    
    ; IR Probe:
    ;M558 P8 C"0.io0.in" H5 F120 T6000			; set Z probe type to unmodulated and the dive height + speeds
    ;G31 P500 X0 Y25 Z1.45                       ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    ; M564 S0 to disable axis limits.
    
    ;M557 X10:380 Y40:380 P10:10                     ; Chriss - define mesh grid
    M557 X50:350 Y50:350 P3:3
    	                                     ; https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M557_Set_Z_probe_point_or_define_probing_grid
    
    
    ;; Heaters
    ; Bed
    ; Tune in with:  M303 H0 S70       (60=Temp) (M500 to save) 
    ; Show curren tsettings M307 H0
    M308 S0 P"0.temp2" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4138 ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin temp2
    M950 H0 C"0.out2" T0 Q10                       ; create bed heater output on 0.out2 and map it to sensor 0 and Frequency (Q) 10Hz
    ; MOVED to  override M307 H0 A340 C140.0 D5.5 S1.0 V0.0 B0          ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
    M140 H0                                        ; map heated bed to heater 0
    M143 H0 S120                                   ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
    
    
    ; Hotend
    ; Tune in with:  M303 H1 S270       (60=Temp) (M500 to save) 
    ; Show current settings M307 H1
    M308 S1 P"0.temp3" Y"thermistor" T500000 B4723 C1.196220e-7  ; configure sensor 1 
    M950 H1 C"0.out3" T1                         ; create nozzle heater output on 0.out3 and map it to sensor 1
    M143 H1 S280                                   	; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C
    ; MOVED to  override M307 H1 A340 C140.0 D5.5 S1.0 V0.0 B0        ; disable bang-bang mode for heater  and set PWM limit
    
    ;; Fans         ##################### TODO
    ; Fan for the printed part:
    M950 F0 C"0.out9" Q500                       ; create fan 0 on pin 1.out4 and set its frequency
    M106 P0 S0 H-1 C"Part"                       ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned off
    ; Fan for the Hotend:
    M950 F1 C"0.out8" Q500                       ; create fan 1 on pin 1.out5 and set its frequency
    M106 P1 S1 H1 T45 C"Hotend"                  ; P="set fan 1" S="value" H="Thermostatic control Heater No." T=" is turned on at 45°C"
    
    ; Fan for expansion case Alwas on
    ;M950 F9 C"1.out8" Q500
    ;M106 P9 S1 H-1
    
    
    ; Tools
    M563 P0 S"TooL0" D0 H1 F0		                 ; define tool 0
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0                              ; set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0                                   ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    
    ;; Filament Sensor          ##################### TODO
    M591 D0 P5 C"0.io3.in" R40:120 E3.0 S0  ; Duet3D laser sensor for extruder drive 0, connected to endstop input 3 (E0), tolerance 40 to 120%, 3mm comparison length, disabled
    
    
    ; Custom settings are not defined
    
    ; Miscellaneous
    M575 P1 B57600 S1							; Enable PanelDue
    M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss
    
    
    ; Configure the case fan:
    M308 S9 P"mcu-temp" Y"mcu-temp" A"mcu"        ; define sensor 9 to be mcu temperature
    M950 F2 C"0.out7" Q500
    ;M106 P2 S100 C"Case"
    ;M106 P2 S0 C"Case"				; Keep it off for now
    M106 P2 S1 L0.25 B0.5 H9 T40:60 C"Case"      ; cooling electronics space thermostatic on sensor 9 35 to 50C
    
    
    
    
    
    
    ; Enable the LED stripe and turn it off
    M950 F3 C"0.out6" Q500   ; LED on out6 ground on top pin, plus on 3rd pin from top (V_OUTLC1)
    M106 P3 C"LED" S0
    
    
    M501                                               ; load saved parameters from non-volatile memory (config-override.g)
    
    
    
    
    

  • Moderator

    Can you test if you can reliably extrude at 195c? That might be too cold and it clogged?



  • @Phaedrux

    Good point.. I will finish the current print first. ... do you expect that PLA will fail already at 195?


  • Moderator

    Depends on the PLA. Depends on how much volume you're trying to flow. Depends on how accurate your thermistor values are.

    You could do a volumetric flow rate calibration at that temp to see if your speed height width combination was more than the hotend could handle at that temp.

    Did you try to print it again?



  • @Chriss Just try using an extrusion multiplier of 95%. Parts are surprisingly very tolerant of under extrusion, but very intolerant of over extrusion.



  • @Phaedrux

    Printed @220°C

    IMG_20201101_121539.jpg

    IMG_20201101_121600.jpg

    IMG_20201101_122201.jpg

    @deckingman The 95% flow rate print is on it's way. That may take 2 hours.



  • @Chriss I didn't look at the pictures earlier. Now that I have, I can see the problem - I've had exactly the same thing myself in the past. It's the overhang curling up at the edges. Increase the part cooling or re-arrange the ducting.



  • @deckingman You have all of my respect but I do not agree here. The cooling works very well at all of the below layers/overhangs. The hotend tool is a bondtech assembly with cooling bla bla.... I do not expect that there technique do not work.

    And the knock over happens always after 70-85mm. I would expect a earlier knock over if that would be a thermal issue.

    Cheers, Chriss



  • this yellow surface looks a lot like printbite. printbite requires bit higher temp than other surfaces so maybe that's your problem... trying 65 or 70C for the bed might solve your problem.

    as for the

    I would expect a earlier knock over if that would be a thermal issue.

    actually, for most thermal issues it depends on the print temp so with the design of that tower it will curle up more or less depending on the print temp so whatever temp you reach there is a problem... also, just like overextrusion, things tend to stack up so delayed failing... also same nozzle "catching" at low height does not produce same amount of force to the base as when it does the same thing higher up etc etc..

    IMHO you need to get that bed to at least 65 for that build plate, and you need to look at the print to see why it catched and on what, hard to tell that from images but in 99% cases, as said already, it is either "curled up" so catched by nozzle or overextruded so catched by nozzle 🙂



  • @Chriss Well I'm not going to argue with you but that last picture you posted clearly shows the left hand edge of the part curling upwards.


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