Glue for the bed surface?



  • Hi *,

    What do you guys use to glue the surface of the bed to the aluminum plate?

    I understand that the most commercial suppliers use that M3 4xx "tape" which is stable at higher temperatures. I had a lot of problem to apply it manually to surfaces. I tried a glue in spray cans which should be stable till 150° but it lost it's bond at 60°C already.

    I search for a glue which is more like a lotion which can be easily applied and which can displace every air below the surface.

    Any ideas?

    Cheers, Chriss



  • @Chriss said in Glue for the bed surface?:

    I understand that the most commercial suppliers use that M3 4xx "tape" which is stable at higher temperatures. I had a lot of problem to apply it manually to surfaces.

    what problems did you have?



  • @Veti
    Well, the usual problem you have if you apply a sticky foil to a surface. I have air bobbles, the glue on the film changes it thickness if it came in contact with the surface and you have to pull it off for "reorganization". Is is freaking expensive, bad to store and not very available.

    I'm not a fan of glues which are like a film, I prefer liquid glues....



  • Most people I think use flexible build plates now with PEI surfaces



  • @jay_s_uk

    sure.. buth they do not stick on the aluminum plate just by the pure air. All of them needs to be glued somehow....



  • @Chriss you get a magnetic sheet with them. That attaches to the aluminium plate as they have a sticky back and then that holds the flexible sheet in place.
    I have them installed on all 3 of my printers and my resin printer



  • @jay_s_uk

    OK, jay... I think yo do not want to understand me..... So I will try it again:
    And how do you think that the lower magnetic part sticks to the aluminum plate? By it's good will?
    It makes no difference what the upper site of your build plate is... there are enough religious fights going on. The question is HOW to glue the (whatever) material to the aluminum thingy.



  • @jay_s_uk said in Glue for the bed surface?:

    they have a sticky back



  • @jay_s_uk
    And this back sucks....I search for a replacement of exactly this pile of shit.



  • @Chriss Not on any of mine it isn't.
    Its typically 3M tape and I've taken them up to ~120 degrees C with no sign of failure



  • @jay_s_uk

    They do not fail at temperature. They overall concept is broken. You can not avoid air bobbles and you can not change the orientation while you apply it.



  • just use the same principle as with applying a screen protector on your phone.

    slowly and use a soft scraper to push out air bubbles



  • @Veti said in Glue for the bed surface?:

    just use the same principle as with applying a screen protector on your phone.

    That may work with small foils... don't know, I glue huge foils always wait. Just some drops of screen cleaner in some water.

    slowly and use a soft scraper to push out air bubbles

    Did this ever worked for you? I do not see any posibillity to push a air bobble out of the middle of a 500x500 bed. The M3 tape is far to sticky in my opinion.



  • I installed my 500x500 build surface with no bubbles at all.
    If you have some, just use a needle to pop them and let the air out. Problem solved



  • Installed a Lot of 300x300 pei sheets. If you are going slow its bubblefree







  • @Chriss said in Glue for the bed surface?:

    I search for a glue which is more like a lotion which can be easily applied and which can displace every air below the surface.

    thats not gonna solve the problem of applying the next layer without bubbles

    if you can't get the hang of installing the film bubble free maybe buy a heated bed with pre-installed magnets and steel sheets with pre-installed PEI or whatnot.



  • Hi,

    I tried BuildTak's system on one of my printers and like it so much that I put it on my other printer.

    A little patience and care is needed to be sure.

    I fold back an inch or so of the protective backing to expose the sticky bit and get things lined up just right.

    Then using a small wooden block I apply pressure over that area.

    Then I gradually pull back the protective backing applying pressure as I go.

    Frederick



  • We use Rapid Tac. It allows us to reposition and work out any bubbles before drying.. It’s main purpose is for the vinyl sign making business.

    edit we don’t use this as the glue- we use it to apply the 3M backed PEI sheets to build surfaces, etc..

    96352860-CB46-4B42-B684-C9510BF05018.jpeg



  • @oozeBot said in Glue for the bed surface?:

    Rapid Tac

    Thanks for the idea.... I got told that the M3 thingy can not be applied wet. For an unknown reason. I do not fully trust the source and you confirmed my scepticism now.

    Btw: Amazon in Germany want me to pay 95,44€ for that "magic fluid". 😉 I guess that I will give the old traditional way a chance. Just some soap/window cleaner and water.



  • @Chriss Here is what I found when googling for a homemade formula. I'd try this over spending too much. I forget when I picked up this bottle of rapid tac as it's been years ago - and as you can see in the photo, it is going a looong way for our needs.

    *alcohol,soap and water is all that I use and I go through a gallon every two weeks. I trierd a bottle of rapid Tac and other than smelling better,couldn't see a difference. When I bought the rapid tac,the guy at the sign supply place told me I was wasting my money,that the recipe I use now is just as good. I wanted to see for myself,and I did. I haven't wasted any money since.

    One Gallon:

    Fill gallon jug about 7/8 full. add 3 or 4 good squirts of sihwashing liquid soap. I use all kinds of brands,no one seems to be any better than the other. Add alcohol to fill rest of gallon. If you want it to smell like the expensive store-bought stuff,add some vanilla falvor.

    Alternate,that I have used if you don't mind it being BLUE: (I got this from a sign guy with 40 years in the business)

    3/4 gallon water,1/4 gallon windshield wiper solution. And the soap.

    There are those who will say its not as good as the store bought stuff but I do amywhere from 2 to 5 signs and banners a DAY,every day,and mostly wet. I have NEVER had a proble with it. I am usually able to remove the tape after 2 minutes or less on glossy surfaces, about 5 minutes on banners that are not glossy.

    Never a bubble,never a wrinkle. And I can tell you taht from having to REMOVE a few letters here and there(people do chaneg their minds)...the stuff does NOT affect the bond of the vinyl to the substrate.

    Let me say one thing..I have a background in chemistry and there is NO magic ingredient in Rapid Tac or any other that makes it special. They like to say there is. But there isn't.*



  • @Chriss said in Glue for the bed surface?:

    I understand that the most commercial suppliers use that M3 4xx "tape" which is stable at higher temperatures. I had a lot of problem to apply it manually to surfaces.

    What type of problems? I never had a problem applying the M3 4xx sheets to the bed, the problem I had is that after a while the glue fails at some points and when I use it to attach the heater to the bed in places where glue fails the heater chars up and dies. For the surface plate I never had a problem applying 4xx but I attach the surface plate to the glass and then I add glass on top of aluminium bed. The contact aluminium-glass I make from silicone heatsink pads, they are sticki enough to hold the glass tight, thermally conductive enough to allow glass to heat up, and when required you can remove the glass without too much issues. The print surface I attach to the glass.

    The issue I had with all M3 adhesives when printing "nasty" plastic is that M3 adhesives stay "soft" and when you have many tens of kilograms pulling the few square millimeters due to warping forces the adhesive tends to allow print surface to disconnect from the glass and break, bend, crumble...

    This was solved with the latest version of printbite (actually probably some times before but I had some very old versions and recently got new ones for new printers so dunno at which point Jason changed the adhesive) where the adhesive used is some industrial thing that after curing (you stick the surface to glass, you heat your bed to 120C, you put a dump towel on your bed, keep it at 120C for 60 minutes and then let it cool, then do it again) the "glue" turns into "stone" ... bad side of it - you won't be removing that surface from the glass ever again, good side - it works awesome 😄 ... no clue what that industrial glue actually is but if you contact Jason from Flex3Drive I'm sure he'll share the info, he's pretty straight forward with that type of details.

    Whatever he's using works awesome for sure till 150C, dunno if it goes over that I have not tested, but 150C survives without a problem


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