rought outside surface



  • so ive been experimenting on my machine a little , overall calibration on cube is nice but on actual print it another story sometime , extruder calibration has been check and printer does extruder 100mm when you ask for it

    here a test print of a mandolorian helmet in a smaller size , i have plan to print a full size one but need to figure out a few things first i seem to have a lot of micro gap ,

    it was sliced with cura .3mm tall layer 45mm print speed with PETG with a .6mm nozzle , printed at around 205C. PA set to .2 i believe
    Extruder is a FLexion direct drive not geared with some micro-swiss barrel ,

    Now i think sometime my temp is actually higher than show but him waiting to received an infrared temp gun to double check

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    link to my machine:
    https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/17999/the-mean-machine/4?_=1604899977803

    here my config.g

    ; Drives
    M569 P0.0 S1 ; physical drive 0.0 goes forwards
    M569 P0.1 S0 ; physical drive 0.1 goes forwards
    M569 P0.2 S0 ; physical drive 0.2 goes forwards
    M569 P0.3 S0 ; physical drive 0.3 goes forwards double X
    M569 P0.5 S0 ; physical drive 0.5 goes backwards
    M569 P0.4 S1 ; physical drive 0.4 goes forwards
    M584 X0.0:0.3 Y0.1 Z0.2 E0.5:0.4 ; set drive mapping
    M350 X16:16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X160.00:160.00 Y160.00 Z6400.00 E186.5:186.5 ; set steps per mm
    M566 X400.00:400.00 Y400.00 Z12.00 E120.00:120.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X3500.00:3500.00 Y3500.00 Z180.00 E1200.00:1200.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X140.00:140.00 Y140.00 Z20.00 E250.00:250.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X1450:1600 Y1600 Z1650 E1500:1500 I25 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S10 ; Set idle timeout

    ; Axis Limits
    M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima
    M208 X350 Y330 Z636. S0 ; set axis maxima

    ; Filaments
    M591 D0 P1 C"io3.in" S1 ; filament monitor connected to E0_stop
    M591 D1 P1 C"io4.in" S1 ; filament monitor connected to E1_stop

    ; Endstops
    M574 X1 S1 P"!io0.in" ; configure active-high endstop for low end on X via pin io0.in
    M574 Y2 S1 P"io2.in" ; configure active-high endstop for high end on Y via pin io2.in

    ; Z-Probe
    M950 S0 C"io7.out" ; create servo pin 0 for BLTouch
    M558 P9 C"^io7.in" H5 F120 T3000 ; set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
    G31 P500 X-25 Y40 Z3.75 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
    M557 X10:300 Y80:270 S40 ; define mesh grid

    ; Heaters
    M308 S0 P"temp3" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin temp3
    M950 H0 C"out0" T0 ; create bed heater output on out0 and map it to sensor 0
    M143 H0 S120 ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
    M307 H0 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
    M140 H0 ; map heated bed to heater 0
    M143 H0 S120 ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
    M308 S1 P"temp2" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin temp2
    M950 H1 C"out1" T1 ; create nozzle heater output on out1 and map it to sensor 1
    M307 H1 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for heater and set PWM limit
    M308 S2 P"temp1" Y"thermistor" T100000 B3950 ; configure sensor 2 as thermistor on pin temp1
    M950 H2 C"out2" T2 ; create nozzle heater output on out2 and map it to sensor 2
    M307 H2 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for heater and set PWM limit

    ; Fans
    M950 F0 C"out9" Q150 ; create fan 0 on pin out9 and set its frequency
    M106 P0 C"blower" S0 H-1 ; set fan 0 name and value. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M950 F1 C"out4" Q200 ; create fan 1 on pin out4 and set its frequency
    M106 P1 C"blower E0" S0 H-1 ; set fan 1 name and value. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M950 F2 C"out5" Q200 ; create fan 2 on pin out5 and set its frequency
    M106 P2 C"blower E1" S0 H-1 ; set fan 2 name and value. Thermostatic control is turned off
    M950 F3 C"out6" Q750 ; create fan 3 on pin out6 and set its frequency
    M106 P3 C"electrical" S1 H1:2 T20 ; set fan 3 name and value. Thermostatic control is turned on
    M950 F4 C"out7" Q200 ; create fan 4 on pin out7 and set its frequency
    M106 P4 C"E0" S1 H1 T45 ; set fan 4 name and value. Thermostatic control is turned on
    M950 F5 C"out8" Q200 ; create fan 5 on pin out8 and set its frequency
    M106 P5 C"E1" S1 H2 T30 ; set fan 5 name and value. Thermostatic control is turned on

    ; Tools
    M563 P0 D0 H1 F0:1:2 ; define tool 1
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 1 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 1 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    M563 P1 D1 H2 F0:2:1 ; define tool 2
    G10 P1 X0 Y-34.10 Z0 ; set tool 2 axis offsets
    G10 P1 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 2 active and standby temperatures to 0C

    ; Custom settings are not defined

    ; Miscellaneous
    M501 ; load saved parameters from non-volatile memory
    T1 ; select first tool



  • Is it the same with different filaments (PLA, PET, etc...)



  • @Touchthebitum

    i had similar problem with PLA but none with ABS last time i printed it , any more square print seem to be mostly fine it only when the shape start to be more complicated

    printing in vase mode i get none of these issue with the same material



  • @Dad003 said in rought outside surface:

    M350 X16:16 Y16 Z16 E16:16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation
    M92 X160.00:160.00 Y160.00 Z6400.00 E186.5:186.5 ; set steps per mm
    M566 X400.00:400.00 Y400.00 Z12.00 E120.00:120.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X3500.00:3500.00 Y3500.00 Z180.00 E1200.00:1200.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X140.00:140.00 Y140.00 Z20.00 E250.00:250.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M906 X1450:1600 Y1600 Z1650 E1500:1500 I25 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent

    you can not have different settings for x. but i dont think thats causing your probelms.



  • @Dad003 you don't have your slicer set to put the seam at random locations do you? Could be issues with retraction on layer change. Vase mode wouldn't show it, and square sides objects might hide it better?

    Other thoughts.
    Have you done a temperature tower to check the best temperature to print at? Getting your thermistor setting right is good and all, but you will probably still need to try a range of temperatures to get it spot on.
    How old or cheap is your filament? I had very similar issues with some old and cheap filament that went away completelywhen I got a new roll of something slightly better. I think it was mostly down to moisture from storing too long. I don't think ABS is quite as bad for it as PLA or PETG (which fits your findings)



  • @Veti

    that because i got 2 different motor each using a different slot on the duet, at some point i need to get another one .

    @engikeneer

    all my material is brand new , i get it from https://filaments.ca . it really dry around here , humidity level are always really low here .

    i tried to enable coasting for some test and it was worst so maybe i need to reduce lower PA maybe . ill do a few more test once i get the few things in waiting for


  • Moderator

    You will get better surface quality in Cura is you set it to print inner walls > outer walls > infill and to align the seam. That will usually be enough to hide any imperfections from layer change retractions.

    Many settings in Cura are hidden by default and there are a lot of settings to choose from. It will take some poking around and google searches and testing to get it mastered.



  • so i think i found my problem here ,it the extruder that seem to lack of strength sometime to pull the filaments , seem like i might have to either think about a solution or order a different model of extruder , it the downside of an non-geared extruder .



  • @Dad003

    M308 S0 P"temp3" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4725 ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin temp3

    btw if this is your hotend you are printing with, then you are printing at the wrong temperature.

    i assume you wanted to configure an e3d thermistor. that is B4725 C7.06e-8. the c value is very important

    ah i see its your bed



  • that was the heat bed but i corrected that now ,



  • Thinking sometime to go to a bowden setup i think i could have a maximum of 400mm long maybe shorter depending were i put the extruder , then i could go with 2 bondtech single extruder and still be able to use the current hotend and nozzle , it would get rid of the 2 steeper motor on the head , i could bump the acceleration and jerk as well ,

    any opinion about this , since it seem current extruder lack of pulling power ?



  • @Dad003 if I'm honest, I've just done the opposite conversion on my machine. Originally I had 2x BMGs with pretty powerful Nema17s, 700mm bowden into a Chimera. (Bed size is ~300mm square for ref) Granted with a shorter bowden length, most bowden related problems will be much reduced, but here's my thoughts.
    I found that I was struggling to get extrusion under control and needed really high pressure advance. With that, my extruders were struggling to keep up and became my limiting factor for print speed. I probably could have tuned it more/better and there may have been some other issues impacting (old/moist filament I mentioned earlier...), but I spent a few months calibrating and sort of hit a wall.
    In any case, I decided to go direct drive. I still use the BMGs but have switched to smaller pancake stepper motors. My carriage is now quite a bit bigger/heavier, but compared to the weight of the other moving components (the long x gantry in particular) its really not as bad as you think.
    The one trouble I did have was that I couldn't quite get the BMGs close enough to line up the filament paths to the chimera inputs. In the end, I ended up with a ~5cm ptfe tube from extruder to hotend which gave enough room to account for the offset.
    With the direct drive layout, I find I get much better results as I have better control on extrusion. I have had to slow it down a bit as the extruder has less power. Previously I could run at ~13mm^3/s volumetric flow, whilst now I find 10 is a safer limit, but I tend to use smaller and layers nozzles so rarely hit those limits anyway. I also use the accel control in the slicer to do perimeters slower/smoother, then can go harder on the infil where you won't see the ringing.

    Looking at your machine pics, I'd reckon you could get a geared extruder in your current setup, so I'd be tempted to give that a go first (especially if you're already getting the BMGs)? If its only occasionally slipping, having 3x the extrusion force should stop your current issues.



  • @engikeneer you might be right , there after thinking that more in deep i would probably ended up to have 1 inch or 2 of ptfe tubing , just because the BMGx2 has a 20mm spacing while my flexion bracket has 34mm ,

    the next question would be 2 single bmg or the X2 model , 2 single will be easier to align might be harder to mount , price wise the x2 model come whit pancake stepper already and is cheaper than buying 2 single bmg



  • @Dad003 in my case, I'd bought mine separately (first one when I first buuilt the printer with a V6 hotent, then a second when I went dual)
    I'd be tempted to go for the X2 as it will likely also give slightly smaller packaging, but the main thing would be how easily it all mounts into your carriage.
    On the pancake motors, I use the E3D ones which are similar specs to the Bondtech ones, and I'm pretty happy with them. Bondtech is 1.8deg and slightly higher torque which may be better suited. Though you can always put your larger motors on if they fit/you want even more power!


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