Starting over with config.g
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It's fixed.
I rolled back to 1.19.2 and i am currently printing a test cube at 85mm/s and it's much better.
The extruder isn't popping and the doing great.It's not back 100% because the corners of the cube are look a little funky.
I think it's actually over extruding a little. But I can't imagine why.
It hit me as I typed this I changed the multiplier in my slicer chasing problems over the weekend.
I bumped it back down. Hopefully that'll fix it.
I lowered the jerk and acceleration down a little too.Hopefully this is luck and the next print will not bomb.
But this is light years difference than the several failed attempts I have had the last 2 days.One thing I am noticing is that mesh leveling doesn't seem to be working.
I always put my fingers on the lead rods and feel them change during a print.
But I did get my bed extra darn level. I might have nailed it and they don't need to compensate.I'll report back.
Thanks Phaedrux for the input.
Much appreciated. -
Glad you got it back in working order. I've been in the same boat chasing print settings. Eventually I have to force myself to go back to basics and start with a more methodical approach. Not changing too many things at once, and resetting the things I've probably wonked up along the way.
I pulled my config off the duet in case you'd like to compare.
[c]; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 1.20 or newer)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool on Wed Feb 07 2018 13:21:45 GMT-0600 (CST)
; Modified for use during commissioning and further tuning
; First successful test print Tuesday, February 13th in the wee hours of the morning.; 0 - INDEX
; 1 - GENERAL PREFERENCES
; 2 - NETWORK
; 3 - ENDSTOPS
; 4 - DRIVES
; 5 - SPEEDS
; 6 - HEATERS
; 7 - TOOLS
; 8 - FANS
; 9 - RETRACTION SETTINGS
; 10 - PRESSURE ADVANCE
; 11 - MISCELANEOUS; 1 - GENERAL PREFERENCES
M111 S0 ; Debugging off
G21 ; Work in millimetres
G90 ; Send absolute coordinates…
M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
M555 P2 ; Set firmware compatibility to look like Marlin
M911 S22 R23 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; Configure automatic saving on power loss
M912 P0 S-18.2 ; MCU temperature sensor calibration offset (M112 to view current temp. Should match room temp.)M667 S1 ; Select CoreXY mode
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1 ; Set axis minima
M208 X295 Y285 Z300 S0 ; Set axis maxima; 2 - NETWORK
M550 PZ-BOT ; Set machine name
M551 Preprap ; Set password. Use reprap for no password prompt.
M552 S1 ; Enable network
M586 P0 S1 ; Enable HTTP
M586 P1 S1 ; Enable FTP
M586 P2 S0 ; Disable Telnet; 3 - ENDSTOPS
M574 X1 Y2 Z1 S0 ; Set active-low switches, low end endstop for X and Z, high end endstop for Y
M558 P0 H5 F120 T1000 ; Disable Z probe but set dive height, probe speed and travel speed
M557 X15:280 Y15:270 S20 ; Define mesh grid; 4 - DRIVES
M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 (x) goes backwards
M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 (y) goes backwards
M569 P2 S0 ; Drive 2 (z) goes backwards
M569 P3 S1 ; Drive 3 (e) goes forwards
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X200 Y200 Z3200 E837 ; Set steps per mm
M906 X900 Y900 Z1200 E800 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout; 5 - SPEEDS
M566 X800 Y800 Z20 E220 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X8000 Y8000 Z600 E1200 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X2000 Y2000 Z100 E1200 ; Set maximum accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 P1000 T2000 ; Set printing and travel accelerations; FEEDRATE CONVERSIONS
; 20mm/s = F1200
; 70mm/s = F4200
; 120mm/s = F7200; 6 - HEATERS
M301 H0 S1.00 P10 I0.1 D200 T0.4 W180 B30 ; Use PID on bed heater (Auto-tune settings are in config-override)
M305 P0 T100000 B3950 C0 R4700 ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0 (Bed)
M143 H0 S135 ; Set temperature limit for heater 0 (Bed) to 135C
M307 H0 F1 ; Set PWM frequency for heater 0 (Bed) to 1Hz to prevent lights flickering
M305 P1 X200 ; Remap P1 to PT100 channel 200 (Hotend)
M143 H1 S280 ; Set temperature limit for heater 1 (Hotend) to 280C; 7 - TOOLS
M563 P0 S"Titan Aero" D0 H1 ; Define tool 0 (Titan Aero extruder)
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0 ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C; 8 - FANS
M106 P0 S0 H-1 ; Set fan 0 (Part cooling blower) G-code controlled. Thermostatic control is turned off
M106 P1 S1 H1 T45 ; Set fan 1 (Hotend fan) Thermostatic control. Turns on when hotend reaches 45c
;M106 P2 F12 L0.8 B5 H0:1 T45:170 ; Set fan 2 (Duet case fan) Thermostatic control. Turns on 170c (basically while printing)M106 P2 F12 L0.8 B5 T45:65 H100:101:102 ; Set fan 2 Duet case fan. Turns on when the MCU temperature (virtual heater 100)
; reaches 45C and reaches full speed when the MCU temperature reaches 65C or if any TMC2660
; drivers (virtual heaters 101 and 102) report that they are over-temperature
; Minimum speed 80%, PWM frequency 12; 9 - RETRACTION SETTINGS
M207 S1 R0.01 F5000 T1200
; M207: Set retract length
; Parameters
; Snnn positive length to retract, in mm
; Rnnn positive or negative additional length to un-retract, in mm, default zero
; Fnnn retraction feedrate, in mm/min
; Tnnn feedrate for un-retraction if different from retraction, mm/min (RepRapFirmware 1.16 and later only)
; Znnn additional zlift/hop
; Example: M207 S4.0 F2400 Z0.075; FEEDRATE CONVERSIONS
; 20mm/s = F1200
; 70mm/s = F4200
; 120mm/s = F7200; 10 - PRESSURE ADVANCE
M572 D0 S0.05 ; set extruder 0 pressure advance to 0.05 seconds
; 11 - MISCELANEOUS
M501 ; Load saved parameters from non-volatile memory
T0 ; Select first tool[/c] -
Thank you Phaedrux.
As I mentioned in my last post things are close to normal again, but I am still having one problem that doesn't make sense.
Test cubes and other small things print beautifully. But when I resumed my project I mentioned earlier I am experiencing failed prints due to layer adhesion. But it's not everywhere, just on the parts of the prints with thin sections.
As mentioned, I use PETG and before my outage everything was fine. I had printed this piece before with no issues.
Everything looks good now, as I don't get the usual blobs, and stringing is minimal as is characteristic for PETG when things are set right.
But when going from a large area of a model to a small, thin area I am experiencing some pretty serious delamination of the layers.
I don't have an actual picture of the failed print as I got pissed and chunked it in the garbage but I will post a screen grab of the cad image:
The areas between the red lines is where the delamination begins and ends. So badly that just a very light amount of pressure and the will break off in your hand.
The yellow lines denote that area is 2.5mm thick, so as to get a reference of how thin the wall is. Not that thick to cause such a serious failure.Before I was successfully printing PETG at around 60mm/s, Hotend at 240c, and 25% cooling fan. With these settings after the outage I get the delamination problem.
I have since increased the extrusion multiplier from the original .90 to .95, and finally back to 1.00, thinking it was not extruding enough filament.
I re-enabled pressure advance and currently have it set to .03
I even tried a print last night of 35mm/s, no fan at all, and bumped up the temp to 255c but I get the same results.EDIT: I forgot to mention I performed a PID tune on the extruder.
I know it's something simple I am overlooking. But I am stumped since the obvious things have no effect.
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I was looking over your configuration and I saw something I haven't seen yet.
[[language]] M204 P1000 T2000 ; Set printing and travel accelerationsI checked on 'M204' and it said it sets starting acceleration.
Can you explain? -
Where did you see setting starting acceleration?
Here's the Duet GCode definition. https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode#Section_M204_Set_printing_and_travel_accelerations
M201 X2000 Y2000 Z100 E1200 ; Set maximum accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 P1000 T2000 ; Set printing and travel accelerationsThe difference between M201 and M204 is that M201 sets acceleration for the whole axis, while M204 sets it by move type.
I am still tuning my parameters and should probably have a lower acceleration set for the Y axis since it's lugging around more weight on the CoreXY.
As for your layer delamination problem, I'm stumped. Is it printing from the same Gcode as before, or have you resliced? Has anything else changed that you may not have accounted for? I would have suggested checking your extrusion multiplier and adjusting to make sure you're not getting any gaps between lines, but you've already bumped that.
What about things like retraction speeds and amounts? Is the area delaminating right after a travel move?
Is it possible the PID tune previously done was run under different circumstances and gave you different values? Do you have a way to verify your thermistors temperature at the hot end? PETG delaminating is usually a temperature issue. You could try boosting the temp up 10c and running as normal.
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Where did you see setting starting acceleration?
I googled "Gcode M204" and the first link was to the Marlin Firmware site.
I didn't read the whole thing but took that definition from the first line of page.
I ain't too bright when it comes to all the gcode jargon so I didn't bother in hopes your explanation
would be more layman, and it seems to be.
So does this define speeds for say holes and circles and what not?
I hope you say yes. I'll add that line to mine immediately.My retraction length is probably high now (3.5mm) that I have re-enabled pressure advance, and in truth its been so long that I played with it that I forgot to adjust the retraction back down now that pressure advance is running. I'll try it tonight and maybe that is the fix, but I am bumfuzzled why it all went south in the first place. If my knowledge of the config settings is correct, drive settings wouldn't effect the adhesion, and thats all I was worried about after I got the firmware re-installed.
Regarding the PID tuning,
I can't say it's the problem since it was doing this before the tune, since the trends were and still are rock solid, and no I haven't verified the hotend temp after I tuned it. I have a IR temp gun and I used it to verify a while back, but I have the heat block insulated and I was too lazy to let it cool down, take the sock off and check it. The way I have my hotend and cooling duct arranged,(pretty darn close) it will hang if I am not careful when removing and I don't want to try it while it's hot. I had hoped to get lucky and stumble across a bad config setting and I'd be back in business but I've determined that I have to go into full R&R mode now and postpone my little project until this is fixed, so I will also do that check tonight when I get home from work. -
Here's the thing that stumps me the most, and it occurred to me as I was re-reading your reply…
I know it would seem to be a temp issue like you said, because logic states that if the plastic isn't hot enough it won't weld to itself. But last night I set it up to what I thought was an extreme. 255c with no fan at all. I was expecting to find a melted blob on my hot bed. But it turned out nicely with exception of the areas I pointed out. Every other part of the model was shiny and strong. Just the thin parts. But with the temp so high and no fan to cool it wouldn't that have had an opposite effect?
Shouldn't the thinner parts have been completely deformed, but melted together instead of separating?Lets say for Pete's sake that my thermistor isn't reading correctly and my temp is lower than it should be.
Shouldn't the thicker part of the model be effected and not the thinnest?
I am wondering if it's the mother of all coincidences and my filament is the cause? I am 2/3 into a 1kg spool.
Could the last 1/3 be off badly? I measured its diameter last night before starting the print in question and it was only .01 off from when I measured it new.
But is the problem underextrusion? I could pose the same argument about the thicker parts being effected more than the thinnest.
Btw, its Hatchbox PETG. I know its cheap but I have always had good luck with it.
I am tempted to come off some money and buy a roll of premium stuff just to see the differences. -
Maybe try printing a temp tower to see if you get similar lamination issues.
Are you using the same layer height?
I guess it's possible that your PETG has taken on some moisture from the air. Has it been a long time since printing with it? Do you hear any hissing or popping sounds or see any steam at the nozzle? Tossing the roll in the oven at the lowest temp for a couple hours to dry it out might help if so.
Hatchbox may be cheap, but that doesn't mean it's bad. You've had good results before on the same roll so I wouldn't jump straight to blaming the filament.
Getting your retraction tuned up might be a good start. Too much retraction can lead to under extrusion at the start of the next print move which can look a lot like delamination because there is an entire layer high gap where nothing was extruded. One way to investigate that would be to examine the tool path in your slicer in those specific areas to see if layers are starting there often. That particular section appears to be the inside of a curve, so the slicer may be trying to hide the seam there leading to a higher concentration of layer starts there.
M204 won't set separate acceleration based on print feature, only the fact that it's a print move versus a travel move. So it won't help for small features like holes. That's up to your slicer. Slic3r has a setting to slow down for small features like that. Cura currently doesn't unless you create a modifier mesh manually. I don't know what you use for a slic3r but if you're printing a lot of parts that have small dimension holes for bolts and things, I recommend slic3r PE for that reason.
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Sorry for not replying in so long.
Don't you hate when silly things like, say your job and various life responsibilities get in the way of the important things?I still had time to tinker with my machine and I don't want t say it's fixed, but I have learned a few things and I have some suspicions.
I pretty much started over from scratch regarding my slicer settings. (S3D)
And I made some mods to my printer frame to accommodate a new location for my extruder drive.
I shortened up my bowden tube a bit, though I don't think it was too long to begin with but I wanted to try and get it as short as I could so eliminate that as a culprit.
I have printed several temp test towers, but have had varied results. None of which showed any real adhesion troubles.
I only noticed it on things like the image I posted earlier and the separating I was having with the model.
So with that, I made my own test that was comparable to the parts of the model that was failing.I printed one at the usual 240c @.2 layer height and though there was not any separation, the layers were very easy to see.
I did 2 more test, one at 250c and 260c and the results were much better.
This one was printed at 260c and is my favorite by far, as I have always had to print at a lower layer height to get such clean results as this.
So I am suspecting that my temperature readings are not correct. As I am sure you know, 260c is way out of the normal printing range for PETG and I though I have never printed anything this hot and attempted to "scald" filament I would assume that under normal circumstances I would have cooked it in the hotend if my temp readings were correct.
I have a small ir temp gun that doesn't seem to be accurate enough to read the hotend correctly. The best I have gotten with it was 150c.
Though when reading my hotbed it is spot on accurate, as it matches what the readout has for it.I printed a project this past weekend in PLA +, which calls for higher temps than normal PLA. I did a test print in the normal range and sure enough I was getting a small amount of separation. And since one model was a 20 hour print and another was about 6 hours I upped the temp to be safe. The max temp recommendations for it is 225c and I printed at 240 and they both came out nice.
If you were wondering what these are, my daughter requested these for a school project.
They are animal cells.
She will paint them up in the appropriate colors and present them along with an essay in hopes of getting an 'A'.So I dunno.
Until I can find a way to accurately read my hotend's temperature I guess I will shoot from the hip and just tack on a few degrees to my hotend from now on.
I am still baffled as to why this happened out of no where. The only real benefit I have gained from how well it was printing before the failed FW upgrade attempt, would be discovering how much smoother .2 layer heights look with PETG at higher temps.
And I print PLA+ a lot and wasn't having any separation at the normal recommended temps.
Maybe the temperature has always been too low and I have just been lucky.It is indeed a great mystery.
Though I will admit, I am not ruling out "Operator Trouble" as a cause. -
I have found that temperature in the room requires me to adjust the print temp a little bit.
Specifically, as winter happened this year, I had some layer separations that I've never experienced before. 5 or 10c bump in print temps fixed them all.
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I did have this kind of experience with weak PETG some time ago, as far as i could deduce it was cause by a slight mix with another type of plastic (PLA i think) normally the PETG parts i print are really strong but this one part came out so weak i could bend it slightly and at the bend every single layer line would delaminate, could almost pull out the extrustion thread like unraveling a sweater.
The top of the part was nice and strong as i think by that time the PLA was all cleared out, some hotends keep more plastic then others in the nozzle, even just a tiny amount might cause you issues. Something to keep a eye out for perhaps if you get this again after a filament change.
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Thanks, Kezat.
Actually the first troubles occurred after a firmware crash. I was well into a fairly fresh roll when it happened.
And I have always changed out the nozzle and heatbreak when changing to a different type of filament.
I only print PLA or PETG and as you suggest, I learned its good practice to start with a fresh nozzle.
And I even changed the nozzle/throat when this first happened as I thought that the bad adhesion was coming from a clogged nozzle.That's not to say I haven't thought it being the filament. But I experienced the same problems with a brand new roll of PLA.
Admittedly the PLA didn't fail like the PETG did, but I did get a little separation. Upping the temp seemed to eliminate it.Danal,
I am not married so I get to keep my printer inside my climate controlled home.
The temp doesn't vary much. -
Have you considered a PT100 temp sensor upgrade?
Or to verify the temp of the hotend get a multimeter with a thermocouple probe. I've found that the shiny surface and small area of the hotend makes it very difficult to get accurate readings with an IR laser probe.
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Have you considered a PT100 temp sensor upgrade?
You're referring to the E3d temp sensor for the heat block, correct?
I have that already. -
Now we're getting somewhere. It would be unusual to have such a weird temperature discrepancy with a PT100.
In your config at the top of the thread it doesn't look like you have the PT100 setup. Do you now have a it properly bound to the right channel on the daughter board?
Are you using a 2 wire or 4 wire harness?
What temperature does it read right after turning the printer on? It should be dead close to room temp.
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Phaedrux, I just committed a huge faux pa with David in another thread concerning the correct terminology on 3D printer parts.
I called a simple Mosfet an SSR. I know better now.With that, I have told you that I have a PT100 sensor installed on my hotend.
For the sake that I might have given you bad information as well, I am going on the fact that the E3D site calls the little cylindrical cartridge I have installed on mine, a PT100 sensor.
I purchased it as part of a "Sock and Block Upgrade" on Amazon.
Other places that advertise it are calling it just a thermistor cartridge.
I see other upgrades for this such as an amplifier, which I do not have.Just to make sure I haven't mistakenly called something else what it really isn't, here is a picture and it's description that I found on the E3D site, but as mentioned everywhere else calls it a thermistor…
It has 2 wires, both of which are the same color, and I have them installed on the 'E0 VSSA Thermistor1' pins on my board.
The temp reading seems to correct at 22c.
It's identical to the bed's reading as well.If I truly do have a PT100 sensor, and you stated my config settings are wrong for such a thing, that has to be the problem.
Or if it isn't a PT100 sensor, maybe I have no business meddling with electronic devices and I should look into botany as a hobby. -
PT100 sensors are great, but require a small amplifier board to function properly.
See here: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Connecting_PT100_temperature_sensors
I'm not 100% sure how well it would function as a regular thermistor. From what I can gather it looks like it could be possible if you set the tables for it correctly but it won't be very accurate at higher temps. At room temp it may only be 1c off, but at 200+ it could be more than 30c off. Maybe someone else can chime in about that.
Best bet would be to switch back to your old thermistor for the time being and obtain the amplifier board found here: https://www.duet3d.com/DuetAddons/PT100_DaughterBoard or from Filastruder in the USA: https://www.filastruder.com/collections/electronics/products/temperature-sensor-boards-for-duet
In the config file, to use a PT100 sensor you have to tell it which amplifier channel to look for it on.
From my config:
M305 P1 X200 ; Remap P1 to PT100 channel 200 (Hotend)The amplifier board has up to 2 channels to use (200, 201), and you can stack another amplifier on top of it to get 2 more channels (202, 203). Depending on how the PT100 sensor is wired, (either 2 wire or 4 wire), you can use up both channels to gain higher accuracy. Using 4 wires with twisted pairs allows it to reject more electrical noise and give a more accurate reading. David has posted some more information about that here: https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com/2016/06/25/more-delta-printer-upgrades-wifi-and-silence/
In my case I'm using 4 wires, so I'm using up 2 channels, but you only need to tell it to look on the first channel since there are physical jumpers on the amplifier board that dictate if you're using 2 wire or 4 wire.
I suggest reading the wiki page above on the PT100 and then ordering the amplifier board.
Don't get discouraged. If 3D printing was easy, everyone would do it. What fun would it be if they just worked all the time? Doesn't sound like a fun hobby to me. Gimme something complicated that breaks and I'll be happy. Swearing sometimes, but happy.
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The E3D thermistor cartridges and PT100 sensors look the same, except that I think the wire colours are different. If you have a multimeter, measure its resistance. A PT100 measures about 100 ohms at room temperature, a thermistor measures about 100kohms.
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Phaedrux, I wanted to drop by and update you on my little problem…
I am almost positive that I don't have a temp problem.
It was my extruder feeder.
I hadn't realized it but my filament has been slipping causing the adhesion problems.
Upping the temp only helped it to not slip so much making me think the sensor was not right.I had always thought that the extruder feeder would always pop when it slipped but not in my case.
It would pop at higher speeds, but at slow rates it would just slip.
I found this on Thingiverse and opted to give it a shot before I bought a new feeder.https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2289203
It is a double drive with a 3:1 ratio and it is the bees knees. I discovered that I need Pressure Advance enabled to tame this thing because it was a mess on the first print after I installed it on my printer.
I can see Pressure Advance doing its thing now and when I make a change in the config file, as before I never really noticed much difference. It helps amazingly well, and I am shocked out how much better my prints are with it now, than they were before. And I was pretty proud of what I was producing then!I haven't gotten all of the bugs out yet, because I think my retraction settings are conflicting with PA just a little….I think.
The reason why I am thinking that is now I am seeing some new behavior with PA enabled.
For example, pausing for a second or two during the print, especially at slower speeds/smaller prints.
I don't know if it is normal or if I indeed have something out of whack but it doesn't seem to make an impact on the print.
I have Pressure Advance set at .2
I tried higher and lower values and .2 seems like the sweet spot.I plan on researching it more on the forum and the wiki.
I just wanted to let you know how things were going and another big thank you for yours, and David's help.
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Hey that's awesome you got it sorted out.
That extruder looks pretty cool. Like a diy bondtech.
With pressure advance you can usually dial back the retraction a little bit. It has also been said that your extruder jerk value should be at least 600. Higher acceleration and top speed as well just so you're not getting pauses.
Cheers
