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right motor for a cnc

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  • undefined
    eduardschlegel
    last edited by eduardschlegel 28 Oct 2019, 14:13

    hello,

    I'm planning to build my own CNC and I wanted to know with stepper motors are the best for me.

    In general:
    Size 100x100x10cm
    Balscrew:
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/250-1550mm-SFU1605-Kugelumlaufspindel-Mutterblock-DSG16H-kupplung-BK-BF12/233164312490?var=532646499289
    linear rail:
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/2X-SBR20-1000mm-1m-Linear-Linearführung-Welle-4X-SBR20UU-Linearwagen-CNC/232998989290
    Motor: your suggestions
    As Spindel:
    https://www.amazon.de/Makita-RT0700CX2J-Oberfräse-und-Trimmer/dp/B00CKYCG8S

    I will have dual X, one Y, one Z motors.

    As a result, I want to be able to mill wood and aluminium.

    can you recommend sufficient stepper motors, my idea was to use:
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/Promotion-Schrittmotor-Nema-23-Stepper-Motor-270-oz-in-3A-76mm-Flat-shaft-CNC/163855575007
    or
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/ACT-MOTOR-GmbH-1PC-Nema23-Schrittmotor-23HS2430-3A-112mm-425oz-in-Bipolar-8mm/253725110697?hash=item3b1331f1a9:g:Em0AAOSwgvFbOeZY
    but I read that the duet 2 wifi is limited to 2A.

    thank you in advance.

    ? undefined 2 Replies Last reply 28 Oct 2019, 14:21 Reply Quote 0
    • ?
      A Former User @eduardschlegel
      last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 14:21

      @eduardschlegel said in right motor for a cnc:

      https://www.ebay.de/itm/Promotion-Schrittmotor-Nema-23-Stepper-Motor-270-oz-in-3A-76mm-Flat-shaft-CNC/163855575007

      i use something similar for a 300x400x80mm router, and it cuts aluminium with a reasonable surface finish for a "toy". Rigidity on the body and the power and speed ranges of the spindle is probably more important than the stepper motor.

      The duet 3 is more powerfull, but also more expensive. I'd either go with Duet 3 or see how far away a next generation Duet 2 with new stepper drivers. Although 2A can work fine, your cuts will be shallow and slow in any case, just a little slower with 2A instead of 3A.

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      • undefined
        eduardschlegel
        last edited by eduardschlegel 28 Oct 2019, 14:31

        okay thank you soo far, I think I will go with the duet 3 then, do you know when the shipping will start and if it will be possible to use sensorless homing, that would be very nice to zero out the workpiece.

        undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 28 Oct 2019, 14:39 Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          Veti
          last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 14:37

          @eduardschlegel said in right motor for a cnc:

          if it will be possible to use sensorless homing

          the duet 3 supports sensorless homing. but it might not be suitable for your case
          see
          https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Stall_detection_and_sensorless_homing
          specifically this point

          The stepper drivers only update the stall detection state every 1 or 4 full steps, depending on configuration. So the actual position of the stall is uncertain to either +/- half a full step or +/- 2 full steps. This means that when using stall detection to replace endstop switches, the position defined by the stall is much less accurate than with typical endstop switches.

          in germany there are some shops where you can get cnc supplies of higher quality
          https://www.dold-mechatronik.de/
          and
          https://www.motedis.com/shop/

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          • undefined
            Veti @eduardschlegel
            last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 14:39

            @eduardschlegel said in right motor for a cnc:

            do you know when the shipping will start

            This is the pre- order for the first full production run of the Duet 3 Mainboard 6HC. Delivery for this pre order will be starting towards the end of November 2019.
            https://www.duet3d.com/Duet3Mainboard6HC

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            • undefined
              wilriker @eduardschlegel
              last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 15:01

              @eduardschlegel said in right motor for a cnc:

              but I read that the duet 2 wifi is limited to 2A.

              That is very old information. It supports up to 2.4A if you cool the board actively (from the back, that's important). And in that case 2.4A are the proposed 80-85% current of a 3A stepper - though this is mainly for temperature reasons and if you are mounting these on metal it won't matter.

              Thus: if you can go with up to 2.4A a Duet 2 will work. If you need more than you can pre-order a Duet 3 6HC to be shipped end of November.

              Manuel
              Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
              with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
              My Tool Collection

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              • undefined
                Danal @eduardschlegel
                last edited by Danal 28 Oct 2019, 15:46

                @eduardschlegel said in right motor for a cnc:

                if it will be possible to use sensorless homing

                Sensorless (stall detect) is absolutely unsuited for CNC. Simply not repeatable enough.

                Notice that even 3D printers that stall detect x/y, they all use something else on Z. This is because x/y on a 3D printer need only be accurate to 0.1mm? 0.5mm? 1mm? and Z needs to be repeatably accurate to 1/2 layer height or better, so 0.05 for 0.1 layer height (which almost any printer can do), or 0.03 for 0.06 layers. Really. 0.01 or 0.005 is best for Z on most printers. So they do not stall detect Z.

                Example: Prusa Mk3 i3 series. Stall on x/y, inductive on steel plate for Z.

                Back to CNC: CNC machines need this on ALL axis. You want precision microswitches or optical or inductive. Some way to get to 0.005 repeatability. Even on a basic CNC machine.

                Delta / Kossel printer fanatic

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                • undefined
                  eduardschlegel
                  last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 15:48

                  oh okay so I can use the duet 2 wifi und drive the motors at 80% (thats also recommended to avoid overheating?)?

                  I don't want to go over 3A motors anyways.

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                  • undefined
                    Danal
                    last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 16:25

                    2A v 2.4A vs even more is HIGHLY dependent on cooling the back of the board. In a 30C+ workshop, with no cooling on the board, in an enclosure, 1.5A can burn a driver.

                    I'd suggest heavy heatsinks applied with thermal epoxy to the BACK of the board (this is how Trinamic drivers are designed to cool, through the back), with a dedicated fan blowing across them. A big fan, like from a PC, not the little tiny fans we use on 3d printers.

                    With that setup, I wouldn't hesitate to set the current to 2.4.

                    Delta / Kossel printer fanatic

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                    • undefined
                      eduardschlegel
                      last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 20:47

                      thanks for your advice.
                      one last question, can I drive the two x-axis motors over the Z1 and Z2 connector

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                      • undefined
                        Danal
                        last edited by 28 Oct 2019, 20:53

                        @eduardschlegel said in right motor for a cnc:

                        one last question, can I drive the two x-axis motors over the Z1 and Z2 connector

                        Yes. However, that will "split" the current between the motors, or, if you prefer "double load" the driver chip.

                        MUCH better to put them on separate drivers, and configure those as one axis in duet (like X3:4).

                        Delta / Kossel printer fanatic

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