Use of G30 Z0 and precision nozzle probing for perfect first layer!
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I haven't tried it on PEI but yes that's certainly likely, with printbite I'm using -0.1 but doing it in slic3r as 0.1mm z offset, but that's a "measure once and set" thing to do. I suspect onto glass it would be as near to 0 as it was possible to be.
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Hi DJ and Congrats on getting it working - you are obviously excited about it. I seem to be missing something though. Why is it important to you that the trigger height is 0? It's a set once and forget thing thing with any sensor, especially if ones bed is flat and
level, so as long as it's repeatable, so why does why does it matter that it's zero rather than 0.1 or even 2mm? Cheers. Ian -
Thanks Ian, no nozzle z offset, doesn't matter once its set for a surface it's set. it's just this idea of using G30 means you always get the first layer right automatically rather than when setting up/tuning having to trial and error your way there. Also if your machine is less reproducible than is ideal you lose the headaches with first layer height.
It's one of these things that for some is not an issue for others it's the bane of their lives. I see it like auto delta calibration, if you could manually calibrate a delta before it was as skill, you enjoyed it, you can't see the point of auto calibration, if you couldn't figure it out or it took hours, then it's vital and is the difference between it working and not.
To make a consumer 3d printer cheap there has to be a way to always have a perfect first layer automatically. This along with many other small ideas is a step in the right direction.
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Ahhh, got you. Yes it really is satisfying when you can just "Home and Go" by whatever route you take to get there.
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just makes me wonder how a piezo sensor could be implemented with a titan extruder and hotend combo in the direct feed stup instead of bowden. because being able to home and go is a big goal for my setup since i have small children.
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I have been doing "Home and go" on my Duet-powered Ormerod ever since I fitted it with a good IR sensor and levelled the bed mechanically nearly three years ago. And "Autocalibrate and go" on my delta. You can do both using any good Z probe.
As I see I, the advantage of nozzle-based probing that is being discussed here is primarily applicable to delta printers. Unless you get most aspects of the geometry perfect, you will have some varying effector tilt, and that will change the effective trigger height of any Z probe that is displaced from the nozzle. For auto calibration purposes you can correct for this in the bed.g file, although measuring the trigger height at every probe point is tedious. But you can't easily correct for variation in trigger height if you need to use mesh bed compensation to iron out residual height errors.
I had been wanting to incorporate a FSR into the hot end mount for some time, but I hadn't worked out a way of doing it that didn't involve hinging the hot end. Using a piezo plate instead and drilling a hole in it for the Bowden tube is a really innovative step that solves the basic mechanical problem.
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just makes me wonder how a piezo sensor could be implemented with a titan extruder and hotend combo in the direct feed stup instead of bowden. because being able to home and go is a big goal for my setup since i have small children.
Okay so this isn't too tricky. All you need is to incorporate a titan bracket which positions the titan above the piezo sensor assembly and use a ptfe filament guide tube (so you have a bowden tube essentially but its only 5cm) down into the hotend. It doesn't matter if its not secured to a bowden coupler on the hotend as its too short to matter but if you do secure it it will work even better.
What we are going to do next is try smaller piezo's see it if works with a smaller unit, and design one for i3 style printers etc…
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I have been doing "Home and go" on my Duet-powered Ormerod ever since I fitted it with a good IR sensor and levelled the bed mechanically nearly three years ago. And "Autocalibrate and go" on my delta. You can do both using any good Z probe.
As I see I, the advantage of nozzle-based probing that is being discussed here is primarily applicable to delta printers. Unless you get most aspects of the geometry perfect, you will have some varying effector tilt, and that will change the effective trigger height of any Z probe that is displaced from the nozzle. For auto calibration purposes you can correct for this in the bed.g file, although measuring the trigger height at every probe point is tedious. But you can't easily correct for variation in trigger height if you need to use mesh bed compensation to iron out residual height errors.
I had been wanting to incorporate a FSR into the hot end mount for some time, but I hadn't worked out a way of doing it that didn't involve hinging the hot end. Using a piezo plate instead and drilling a hole in it for the Bowden tube is a really innovative step that solves the basic mechanical problem.
Like you, I do "Home and Go" (have I just coined another phrase?) without any form of bed compensation because my bed is flat and level and I'm not using Delta geometry. However, I can see another situation where nozzle based probing might be advantageous. That is where the bed isn't completely flat or level, and it isn't possible to get an IR probe close to the nozzle. I'm thinking of the Diamond hot end and similar, with it's great big lump of brass and 3 heat sinks sticking out at 28 degrees.
Also, because I choose to use 3dlac, the surface reflectivity can change so I home the Z axis over a piece of black paper stuck to one corner of the bed. That's fine as long as the bed stays flat and level but on a 400mm x 400mm bed, I'm homing a long way away from where I'm printing so the engineer in me is screaming that it's not a good idea. However I have a plan B….........
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Offset probes are pretty good for delta calibration as long as they can be close enough to the nozzle to be able to reach almost to the edges of the bed and reduce effect of tilt. But not perfect, especially for levelling as they cannot reach everywhere (unless your printer is really under-utilising it's potential build volume and has axes much bigger than the bed). Surfaces are always an issue, either reflectivity or conductivity depending on the probe etc… They only surface that nozzle contact probes might struggle with is a very soft surface, I will test a few soft materials and see what happens.
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Yes, blue painters tape is quite common and I'd have thought a bit "squishy".
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Okay so I did a few tests.
Jeweller's scales on the bed G30 - 15g required to trigger the piezo probe. So not a heavy hit.I don't have blue painters tape but I have got some white masking tape and I read there is no real difference except blue tape can be removed after it has been attached for longer than white/cream masking tape. It was the first time I have ever printed onto tape, or onto a cold bed! I've always had machines with heated beds.
I had to add 0.2mm z offset in slic3r (so thats G31 Z-0.2 in duet config.g if you prefer to do it that way) to get a perfect first layer with the tape. But I had to use the same offset without the tape printing onto relatively hard print bite.
I used G30 after autocalibration, with the bed at 0 with the tape and 80 deg C with printbite. The nozzle was at 130 deg C for probing both times.
So either the bed temperature change is having the effect of compensating for the thickness of the tape or the tape isn't really making much difference to the probing.
I measured the thickness of the brim in both models I set a 0.36mm first layer height its was 0.35mm for tape, and 0.35mm for no tape.
