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    [3.6.0-beta.3+1] Extruder stall detection

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    • dc42undefined
      dc42 administrators @Leonard03
      last edited by

      @Leonard03 for clarification: extruder stall detection does work for the purposes of using an extruder stall to load filament using a G1 H1 Exxx command. Such a use of stall detection does not raise an event.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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      • dc42undefined dc42 has marked this topic as solved
      • dc42undefined
        dc42 administrators @dc42
        last edited by

        I have updated https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware/issues/930 with info on how to determine whether a G1 H1 E move was terminated by an extruder stall or not.

        dc42 created this issue in Duet3D/RepRapFirmware

        closed Feature request: when using stall detection filament loading (G1 H1 Exx) flag whether a stall occurred #930

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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        • Leonard03undefined
          Leonard03
          last edited by Leonard03

          I am sorry for the long time not saying anything. Sadly, even with the 3.6.0-beta.4 the extruder stall detection not seem to work. As stall detection is unavailable for the extruder.

          I have this macro to test this:

          M17 E0
          M302 P1
          
          M913 E40
          
          T0 P0
          
          M83
          
          M915 E0 S-60 H10 R0 F0
          
          
          var ex0pos = move.extruders[0].position
          G1 E-1 F1200  ; small E move of more than 1 full step to ensure that the extruder is not stalled
          G4 P250
          G1 H1 E67
          M400
          if (move.extruders[0].position - var.ex0pos < 67)
            echo "Extrusion stopped by stall"
          else
            echo "Extrusion completed without stalling"
          
          echo "diff:", move.extruders[0].position - var.ex0pos
          M915 E0
          
          
          M913 E100
          

          No mater the M915 parameters, if driver 3 (in my case) is assigned to an extruder, stall detection does not trigger. If the same driver is assigned to an axis (eg V) stall detection is trigger immediately without any move

          By the way, for the M915 parameters, E0 sets the correct parameters but P3 don't

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          • T3P3Tonyundefined T3P3Tony has marked this topic as unsolved
          • Leonard03undefined
            Leonard03
            last edited by Leonard03

            Another update.
            I don't know if is relevant for this issue or not but an observation. Using the macro above, even if cold extrusion is disabled and heater is below minimum extrusion temperature, extruder motor still executes the move, even if DWC report the error "Warning: Tool 0 was not driven because its heater temperatures were not high enough or it has a heater fault"
            RRF 3.6.0-rc.1+1 (2025-03-07 09:35:55)

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            • dc42undefined
              dc42 administrators @Leonard03
              last edited by

              @Leonard03 have you tested extruder stall detection in RRF 3.6.0-rc,1+1 or rc.1+2 (available at https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/y03luwmbypirbxncla3rk/AAJFLPFsVdFylemyhkXsAac?rlkey=7cq4svp4rzl2ztdffpzq2ghjk&dl=0) ?

              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

              Leonard03undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Leonard03undefined
                Leonard03 @dc42
                last edited by

                @dc42 Yes, now I have 3.6.0-rc.1+2 (2025-03-15 15:41:04) with the same results.
                But at tis point, I can confirm that the G1 H1 Exx ignores the M302 command

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                • Leonard03undefined
                  Leonard03
                  last edited by

                  Is there any update for this? 😁

                  dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • dc42undefined
                    dc42 administrators @Leonard03
                    last edited by dc42

                    @Leonard03 I've just re-tested it on Duet 2 and it is working for me. However, I discovered that stall detection can fail if you use M584 to map both an axis and an extruder to the same drive. For example, if I map both Y and E0 to the same drive in a single M584 command, then I can't get the drive to stall when I do a Y homing move. The reason is that the driver has recorded that it is handling the E axis (because E is processed later than Y in the M584 command), so when it stalls, it registers that the E drive has stalled instead of the Y drive. G1 H1 E moves do stop correctly when the drive stalls.

                    If I then send a M584 command to map Y to the same driver, then the drive records that it belongs to the Y axis; so G1 H1 Y moves stop on stall but G1 H1 E moves don't.

                    Does this explain the issue you have experienced?

                    I have created https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware/issues/1098.

                    dc42 created this issue in Duet3D/RepRapFirmware

                    open Stall detection issues when a drive is used by both an axis and an extruder #1098

                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                    Leonard03undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Leonard03undefined
                      Leonard03 @dc42
                      last edited by

                      @dc42 Thank you for revisiting this problem. The sad part is that the extruder is assigned only to the driver 3. I use a macro that remaps the drivers just before that, but at the end, it splits them apart again. V axis on driver 6 and extruder on driver 3. But this seems that don't mater. Running my test macro from above right after an fresh start yields to the same problem.
                      But if I use the driver 3 for an axis instead of an extruder, stall detection works.
                      a side note, during a long move, in a M122 report, driver 3 as the extruder report its SG value as not available

                      dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • dc42undefined
                        dc42 administrators @Leonard03
                        last edited by

                        @Leonard03 one other thing to check is that when you send M915 P3 the minimum fullsteps/sec that it reports and the corresponding speed that it reports immediately after that in brackets match, taking into account the configured microstepping and steps/mm.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                        Leonard03undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • Leonard03undefined
                          Leonard03 @dc42
                          last edited by

                          @dc42 I'm sorry.. I tried to calculate the value but failed.. my apologies 😞
                          My configuration is this:
                          Steps/mm for the extruder is 415
                          Microstepping at 16x
                          Using G1 H1 F600, 10mm/min, right?
                          The response from `M915 P3 is:

                          M915 P3
                          Driver 3: stall threshold 7, filter off, full steps/sec 210 (8.1 mm/sec), coolstep 0, action on stall: raise event
                          

                          Reducing H from 210 to 10 gives (0.4 mm/sec)

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                          • Leonard03undefined
                            Leonard03 @Leonard03
                            last edited by Leonard03

                            Now using 3.6.0-rc.1+3
                            Well.. got now an update:
                            Using only X Y dual Z and the extruder.. MMU/Multitool and UVW axis disabled extruder stall works!

                            @dc42 said in [3.6.0-beta.3+1] Extruder stall detection:

                            for clarification: extruder stall detection does work for the purposes of using an extruder stall to load filament using a G1 H1 Exxx command. Such a use of stall detection does not raise an event.

                            Seems like the extruder can rise an stall event indeed. Tried now and worked using the R2 parameter in M915 command. This is not only good. Is perfect!
                            Works together with the macro you wrote in the issue #930 😁

                            Now, similarly as in one of my previous thread.. what`s wrong to use more then X Y Z? 😕
                            In my case means disabling the MMU/Multitool setup and the UVW axis

                            Now even extruding using the DWC extrude/retract buttons are rising an stall event. Wow..

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                            • Leonard03undefined
                              Leonard03
                              last edited by Leonard03

                              @dc42 Found the problem. Is about M584 E3:3:3:3:3. Virtual extruders give this problem.
                              Reducing this to M584 E3 and redefining all five tools to use extruder 0 works.
                              In my setup I use virtual extruder so I can use different filament configurations per MMU slot.
                              Virtual extruders affects even M302 command to deny cold extrusion. Sending a 'G1 H1 E20' with the nozzle at room temperature still works even if a the warning is rised in dwc

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                              • dc42undefined
                                dc42 administrators @Leonard03
                                last edited by

                                @Leonard03 said in [3.6.0-beta.3+1] Extruder stall detection:

                                In my setup I use virtual extruder so I can use different filament configurations per MMU slot.

                                Thu usual approach would be to use M563 to define a separate tool for each filament slot. Tools can share extruders.

                                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                Leonard03undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Leonard03undefined
                                  Leonard03 @dc42
                                  last edited by

                                  @dc42 that is exactly my setup

                                  M584 X0														; set drive mapping for X axis
                                  M584 Y1														; set drive mapping for Y axis
                                  M584 Z2:4													; set drive mapping for Z axis (dual independent)
                                  if global.MMUmode = true
                                  	M584 E3:3:3:3:3											; set drive mapping for virtual extruders
                                  	M584 U5													; set drive mapping for U axis (MMU selector)
                                  	M584 V6													; set drive mapping for V axis (MMU pulley)
                                  	M584 W7 R1 S1											; set drive mapping for W axis (MMU idler)
                                  else
                                  	M584 E3													; set drive mapping for extruder
                                  

                                  and

                                  ; Tools
                                  if global.MMUmode = false
                                  	M563 P0 D0 H1 F0										; define tool 0
                                  	G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0											; set tool 0 axis offsets
                                  	M568 P0 R0 S0 A0										; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
                                  
                                  elif global.MMUmode = true
                                  	M563 P0 D0 H1 F0										; define tool 0
                                  	G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0											; set tool 0 axis offsets
                                  	M568 P0 R0 S0 A0										; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
                                  
                                  	M563 P1 D1 H1 F0										; define tool 1
                                  	G10 P1 X0 Y0 Z0											; set tool 1 axis offsets
                                  	M568 P1 R0 S0 A0										; set initial tool 1 active and standby temperatures to 0C
                                  
                                  	M563 P2 D2 H1 F0										; define tool 2
                                  	G10 P2 X0 Y0 Z0											; set tool 2 axis offsets
                                  	M568 P2 R0 S0 A0										; set initial tool 2 active and standby temperatures to 0C
                                  
                                  	M563 P3 D3 H1 F0										; define tool 3
                                  	G10 P3 X0 Y0 Z0											; set tool 3 axis offsets
                                  	M568 P3 R0 S0 A0										; set initial tool 3 active and standby temperatures to 0C
                                  
                                  	M563 P4 D4 H1 F0										; define tool 4
                                  	G10 P4 X0 Y0 Z0											; set tool 4 axis offsets
                                  	M568 P4 R0 S0 A0										; set initial tool 4 active and standby temperatures to 0C
                                  
                                  

                                  Those are from my config. But for some reason, sharing the extruder between tools messes something up 😑

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                                  • dc42undefined
                                    dc42 administrators @Leonard03
                                    last edited by

                                    @Leonard03 it looks like you have set up every tool has its own extruder. Is that really the case, or do they all use a common extruder? Or do you have a single common extruder close to the hot end, and an individual extruder for each filament spool to feed filament into the MMU?

                                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                    Leonard03undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Leonard03undefined
                                      Leonard03 @dc42
                                      last edited by Leonard03

                                      @dc42 The MMU is basically a multiplexer. It has no extruders assigned to it. Just moving 3 axis (UVW) to send filament from the selected slot (defined as a tool) to the extruder. It feeds filaments from 0-4 to the same direct dirve extruder.
                                      After that tool change, it disengage the filament and the extruder goes to print with the loaded filament.
                                      I can get away defining only one extruder with the M584. In this case, everything works as expected, but the downside is that i can assign only one filament config to all MMU slots.

                                      @dc42 said in [3.6.0-beta.3+1] Extruder stall detection:

                                      it looks like you have set up every tool has its own extruder.

                                      I think so. Every tool has its own extruder, but all extruders are using the same driver (3) and the same physical extruder

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                                      • dc42undefined
                                        dc42 administrators @Leonard03
                                        last edited by

                                        @Leonard03 said in [3.6.0-beta.3+1] Extruder stall detection:

                                        I can get away defining only one extruder with the M584. In this case, everything works as expected, but the downside is that i can assign only one filament config to all MMU slots.

                                        No, you can define multiple tools using the same extruder and each tool can have a different filament configuration.

                                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                        • Leonard03undefined
                                          Leonard03 @dc42
                                          last edited by Leonard03

                                          @dc42 I am really sorry for the dumb question.. but how to do this?
                                          Seems like filament configurations are assigned per extruder, not per tool.
                                          I know that this topic is getting all over the place and I really don't want bother you or to waste your time. Please let me explain what I tried after seeing the problem with virtual extruders, what works and what not:

                                          From config.g, I will skip other bits (like initial temperatures and offsets because I don't change them so they are irrelevant here)
                                          My actual setup is this:

                                          M584 E3:3:3:3:3 ; this will give virtual extruders 0 to 4 and the D driver for tool definitions
                                          
                                          M563 P0 D0 H1 F0 ; T0, extruder 0, driver 3
                                          M563 P1 D1 H1 F0 ; T1, extruder 1, driver 3
                                          M563 P2 D2 H1 F0 ; T2, extruder 2, driver 3
                                          M563 P3 D3 H1 F0 ; T3, extruder 3, driver 3
                                          M563 P4 D4 H1 F0 ; T4, extruder 4, driver 3
                                          

                                          With this, stall detection don't work but filament configs do.
                                          With this setup, in DWC each tool has its driver and extruded amount.
                                          Every tool can have its filament configuration loaded (the "load filament" option)

                                          I got the point you are referring, so I'm changing the above commands to this:

                                          M584 E3 ; this will give only the actual extruder 0 and the D0 extruder for tool definitions
                                          
                                          M563 P0 D0 H1 F0 ; T0, extruder 0, driver 3
                                          M563 P1 D0 H1 F0 ; T1, extruder 0, driver 3
                                          M563 P2 D0 H1 F0 ; T2, extruder 0, driver 3
                                          M563 P3 D0 H1 F0 ; T3, extruder 0, driver 3
                                          M563 P4 D0 H1 F0 ; T4, extruder 0, driver 3
                                          

                                          With this, stall detection works, but filament configs don't.
                                          Now, with this changes, DWC reports only one extruder (don't like it, but so far so good) and every tool has the ability to be assigned one filament config.

                                          The problem with this approach is that assigning a filament configuration to T0, sets all tools to the same filament. If I change the filament for T2 lets say, it sets all tools again. As filament config as assigned per extruder, not per tool.

                                          As a side note, I took a look at the M563 L parameter but with no luck.
                                          I read the description of issue #1098 and is similar (might help in this case also) but is not the same. Then I try the do the stall detection the extruder is assigned only to driver 3 but the part with logical drivers stands up. "As a result the stall does not stop motion." This is also true for me. Might be related after all.

                                          I had a look at filaments.csv and those are the results:
                                          With the first configuration (my actual one)

                                          RepRapFirmware filament assignment file v1 generated at 2025-03-28 19:23
                                          extruder,filament
                                          4,PLA Fillamentum Extrafill
                                          3,PLA Fillamentum Extrafill
                                          2,PLA SmartFill Glitter
                                          1,PLA Fillamentum Extrafill
                                          0,PLA Elegoo
                                          
                                          

                                          With the testing config looks like this:

                                          RepRapFirmware filament assignment file v1 generated at 2025-03-28 17:35
                                          extruder,filament
                                          0,_dummy
                                          

                                          Here the assigned filament is always to extruder 0, regardless of any other tool being selected and asked to load the filament for it

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                                          • dc42undefined
                                            dc42 administrators @Leonard03
                                            last edited by

                                            @Leonard03 although the documentation for M700/701 says filaments are assigned per tool, I've taken a look at the code and it does appear that it uses a mixture of per-tool and per-extruder assignment. This obviously isn't suitable for filament switching systems that use a common extruder. We'll look into why it was done this way and what we can change.

                                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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