External 5v Source
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USB spec voltage is 5V +0.25V - 0.55V, so I agree not pushing above 5.25V. I don't know what the Pi's contnuous rating is, but it's presumably at least 5.25V. The official PSUs are 5.1V.
https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/19667/external-5v-source-through-duet3 has @dc42 saying the duet 3 can take 5.5V continuous, though.
I have two power supplies. First is a 5V 5A trimmed to a smidgeon over 5.2V which is supplying both Pi and MB6HC (into the Pi on its header, into MB6HC on the EXT5V header) and all three power options jumpers off the MB6HC. I use moderate wires.
The other supply is 24V switched using using pson at the EXT5V header. Pson switches a relay that switches the mains input to the 24V PSU.
For teh 5V I actually use a POL converter which is very close to the Pi (about 10mm way as the electrons fly) and only a few hundred millimetres from the MB6HC so cables are not that critical.
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For those using the PS_ON signal, remember that it is an open drain output switched by a AO3400A. That means:
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When it is active (M80) this signal is pulled low (so it is like a short to GND)
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When it is inactive (M81) this signal is floating, so you need to add a pull-up if you want a proper high level voltage.
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The AO3400A maximum ratings are 30V 5.7A (but the current rating depnds on many factors, divide it by half to make sure)
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If you are controlling inductive loads like relays by themselves (withouth a module), add a flyback diode
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@javitopia said in External 5v Source:
For those using the PS_ON signal, remember that it is an open drain output switched by a AO3400A. That means:
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When it is active (M80) this signal is pulled low (so it is like a short to GND)
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When it is inactive (M81) this signal is floating, so you need to add a pull-up if you want a proper high level voltage.
I wonder if you could clarify something that's been bugging me about this.
What's the default state of that pin? Because when I boot up, it's definitely not pulled low. Not until I actually issue an M80 command. And it can't be floating, otherwise an ATX power supply would be shut down as soon as the board boots. So is it just open? And is it possible to return it to its default state without rebooting?
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@GoremanX said in External 5v Source:
And it can't be floating, otherwise an ATX power supply would be shut down as soon as the board boots.
Isn't that the part of the point? you supply the board with 5v standby to counter act that, which isn't affected by the ps_on input.
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@bearer said in External 5v Source:
@GoremanX said in External 5v Source:
Isn't that the part of the point? you supply the board with 5v standby to counter act that, which isn't affected by the ps_on input.So is it floating at startup?
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Haven't checked the code or measured the signal, but from the behaviour on the one printer I have set up with a ATX supply it does seems so. On power on the ATX supply only provide 5v standby until you turn on the ps_on output (pulling it low) and then you get 12v Vin.
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(You'll want to check the current rating for 5v standby if you plan on using it for the pi)
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@bearer said in External 5v Source:
(You'll want to check the current rating for 5v standby if you plan on using it for the pi)
I'm changing my mind on that. I think I'll just feed the Pi 4 directly with a separate 5v power supply set to 5.2v and have the Pi provide 5v to the Duet 3 via the ribbon cable. My tests with that setup have been successful, and I get better 5v on the Duet 3 than with the onboard converter, despite the resistance in the ribbon cable. The Duet 3 draws barely any current over 5v anyways, and this is one of the "supported" modes so I won't be running afoul of the "rules"
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@bearer said in External 5v Source:
Haven't checked the code or measured the signal, but from the behaviour on the one printer I have set up with a ATX supply it does seems so. On power on the ATX supply only provide 5v standby until you turn on the ps_on output (pulling it low) and then you get 12v Vin.
I'm trying to set it up to work in reverse. That option is supposedly on the to-do list for the 3.x firmware series, but I haven't seen it in the 3.2 changelog so far so I'm assuming it didn't make it yet. I've been trying to figure out how to get it to provide 5v when pulled high, but I'm not sure how to go about it... I was considering a high pullup resistor between the 5v and ps_on pins
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Reverse? For the ATX supply or the output? Yes, the output will support inverting the signal to support some Meanwell supplies i think.
The ATX supply will need modification to work otherwise, or simpler throw a 5v relay in there and always on the supply.
You can't supply any serious current through a pull up resistor btw.
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@bearer I'm using a Meanwell power supply with remote control, hence the need to reverse the behavior.
So if I understand correctly, if I add a resistor (say, 10k?) between the 5v and ps_on pins, then when ps_on is floating (M80), it'll provide 5v but when it's pulled low (M81), it'll provide 0v? That way I could connect the - (minus) pin of the Meanwell remote control to the GND pin and the M80 and M81 commands would function as expected?
I'm hurting my brain...
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@GoremanX I think you've tied your brain in knots.
The board powers up in a floating state.
M80 switches a power supply (that has an active-low input) on by pulling pson low.
M81 switches a power supply (that has a active-low input and its own pullup) off by letting pson float.
If you add a pull-up resistor to 5V it will power up at 5V, then when you issue M80 it will go low. As to whether this casuses your PSU to do what you want depends on the PSU. You mention a Meanwell RS-25-5, but I don't think that has a input that will work with pson - it's just on when mains is supplied and off when not.
In my system I have an opto-isolator across 5V and pson. That activates a relay. Yes it has a flyback diode.
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@achrn My 24v power supply is a Meanwell RSP-150-24, that's the one I'm trying to control with the ps-on pin. The remote control pins on that power supply function in reverse to an ATX power supply
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Possibly stupid question: If I use an external 5V PSU, do I need to remove the INT_5V jumper?
<>RatRig V-Minion Fly Super5Pro RRF<> V-Core 3.1 IDEX k*****r <> RatRig V-Minion SKR 2 Marlin<>
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@GoremanX said in External 5v Source:
RSP-150-24
Ah, of course - I was being stupid thinking it was the 5V you'd control with pson.
However, my reading of the RSP-150-24 data sheet shows it as active low, same as a ATX. The data sheet I've found says "CN1: < 0~0.8VDC POWER ON , 4~10VDC POWER OFF".
So yes, I think you could connect a pullup between pson and +5V, then connect pson to CN+ and ground to CN-. I don't know what current that needs - 10k might be a bit high- I'd probbaly start at 1k.
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@oliof Yes. If you're feeding 5v to the board from an external source (either from a Pi or through the ext_5v pin), then you no longer need to use the onboard 5v converter. Removing that jumper disables the onboard converter
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Just think of the mosfet (the device controlling the pin) as a switch between the pin and GND.
When you issue an M80, the switch closed, so there is a path to GND.
When you issue an M81, the switch opens, so there is not path to any of the power levels.
As far as i know, you can't change this behaviour (use m81 to "close" the pin) so if you need to control a device that is active high you will need external circuitry like a 7404).
What you can do, is changing the default state. If you want your duet to power on as soon as it is supplied power, just add M80 to your con fig.g
If you want your duet to start powered down (i mean the ps_on signal) you don't have to do anything, but you should add M81 in your con fig.g, so the power control appears in your duet web control interface (in RRF3 the ATC power control block won't appear until you have issued a m80 or m81 command)
and lastly @oliof YES if you feed 5v via the ext 5v header you have to remove the int_5v jumper.
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@achrn Woohoo! That worked. Ended up going with a 100ohm pull up resistor, and it works great. Anything higher would cut the voltage down below the 4v threshold for the remote control. The draw from the mosfet doing the switching on the power supply is negligible, so my tiny 1/4 watt resistor isn't being stressed at all. I'll wrap it in heat shrink tubing and call it done.
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@GoremanX said in External 5v Source:
my tiny 1/4 watt resistor isn't being stressed at all.
unless I'm missing something it will be when ps_on is pulled to ground? 100 ohm and 5v = 250mW no?
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@bearer oohh, maybe. Good call. Technically that's exactly its capacity and it hasn't been an issue so far, but it might be in the long run. Could try 220 ohm instead and that would be half its capacity. 1kohm was definitely too high, I was getting just over 3v and it wasn't enough to turn off the power supply.
