Duet3 + SBC with firmware 3.2
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(If there's a better category for this thread, I hope a mod can move it...)
Now that RRF 3.2 (and DSF, etc) have been released, I want to reevaluate if I should go ahead and connect my RaspPi4 to my duet3 to use DSF, or if I should keep the duet3 in stand-alone mode. Back in "3.1.1" days, there were limitations that I would have encountered using DSF, but it was made to sound as if those were easily overcome with code changes, but I can't find anything in the release notes about it...
My setup is that I'm using a duet3 board with a paneldue. The PanelDue is my primary control interface to the printer. I don't have an HDMI touch display, and am not really interested in replacing the simple PanelDue interface. (The irony is that my duet3 board is still connected to a Pi4, but only via ethernet - the Pi only acts as an ethernet/wifi bridge.)
With RRF3.1.1, the issue was that the paneldue functionality was limited when the duet was plugged into a SBC. I can't remember all the limits, but a couple of the major ones all had to do with file access. It related to there being problems starting macros and/or print gcode files from the paneldue when the duet3 was in SBC mode. (I think it was because the duet3 board didn't redirect file directory lists, etc, to the SBC when the commands originated from the paneldue.)
Have these issues been resolved with the 3.2 firmware/software? Is a Duet3+SBC as usable from a PanelDue as a duet3 standalone is?
Thanks
Gary -
Current limitations here: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Duet_3_firmware_configuration_limitations
The PanelDue firmware has been updated and some limitations are now removed. I believe macros are now working.
If you are already running in standalone mode it would be pretty easy to test with the Pi. Just setup a new SD card with DuetPi image, update the pi with sudo apt update sudo apt upgrade, and connect the ribbon cable. Remove the SD card from the Duet and power it all up. Test what you want and see if it works for you. If not, undo the changes and put the SD card back in the duet and disconnect the ribbon.
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So.. what you're saying is something less blunt than "stop being lazy and just try it instead of making everyone else figure out if YOUR needs are met" ?
Fine..
I don't have any spare microSD cards, but I'll backup the 64GB one I currently have in my pi (that's really only used for the piCam and as a ethernet/wifi bridge for the duet) and try it with that.
I'm glad that I at least already had the ribbon cable attached to the duet (not the pi.) Physical access to my duet requires some printer disassembly that would be too much trouble for just an experiment.
Hopefully the power supplied from the duet board (to the pi) is enough for wifi + the little pi camera.
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I wonder if I'm going to hit a "chicken and egg" situation with the duet3 already updated to 3.2 (standalone), but the SBC using an image called "2021-01-05-DuetPi.img"
I guess once I 'apt upgrade' on the Pi, it should catch things up. Should be fun trying.
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@garyd9 said in Duet3 + SBC with firmware 3.2:
I guess once I 'apt upgrade' on the Pi, it should catch things up
Yes.
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How disappointing: low voltage warning on the Pi. That's with 24v into the duet3, the camera inactive, a self powered monitor (actually a full size monitor plugged into hdmi for now) and a dinky logitech wireless keyboard dongle.
That means I'll need to pull the printer apart to tinker with jumpers (and use an additional power cord) if I end up wanting to use this.
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Actually, I'm not quite understanding the low voltage warning on the Pi. I'm seeing it even when the Pi4 is idle, and there's no way that an idle Pi4 is pulling 15 watts (3A/5V.)
In DWC, it shows a 24v (Vin) and a 12v (V12) sensor. Is there also a 5v sensor?
Oh, I bet I know what the problem is: The PanelDue also feeds from 5V. I wonder if the SBC connector has to share the 3A of 5v with the PanelDue.
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Okay, I've run through a few things and have some initial findings:
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Possible bug: (tagging @dc42): When the "STOP" (emergency stop) button is pressed on the paneldue, it seems to disconnect the SBC from the duet3, and the connection never reestablishes. During that time, DWC displays a message "Please stand by..." with a button labeled "Reset Machine" and a moving progress bar thing that just bounces back and forth forever. (This is similar to the SBC/DWC "Emergency Stop", but when its done from DWC, everything reconnects after a few seconds.) I have no idea if this is an issue with the PanelDue, the duet3, DSF or DWC.
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As "over-engineered" as duet boards usually are, I'm surprised they only provide a 3A on the 5V line. With typical duet engineering, and especially with the over-powered duet3 board, I wouldn't have been surprised if 50 watts were available.
Anyway, the result seems to be that having a PanelDue and Pi4 both feeding power from the Duet3 is probably a bad idea. (I'd suggest that this be added to the wiki. It's likely that the same issue would occur with a Pi3.) -
Macros triggered from the PanelDue seem to work.
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gcode (job) files seem to work. It worked for "Simulation" and I started one job (but never let it go past the initial gcode that turns on the heaters - I didn't want to risk a print job while the pi4 was complaining about under-voltage.)
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I'm hitting a couple of trivial configuration issues, but they're mostly harmless and not surprising. For example, it doesn't make sense to set a machine name, enable FTP, etc, when using a SBC. Anyone else "converting" should be aware that when first copying over a config, there will be a couple mostly harmless warnings for config commands that need to be commented out.
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Anyone wanting to move to DSF/SBC from a duet3 standalone (that's already on 3.2) should be aware that they'll have to update the duet/dsf related things on the SBC before it'll talk to the duet board.
Otherwise, I'm going to give this a go for a few days and see how it works out. I'm not actually gaining anything by using the SBC, and probably making things more complicated, but the Pi4's wifi connection is MUCH faster than the Duet3's ethernet (for me.) As long as I'm not losing any functionality, it should be fine.
(I still haven't set up the pi camera stuff I use to watch/monitor prints, so I'm still not sure that this will work out long term.)
"I'm not saying that you are wrong - I'm just trying to fit it into my real world simulated experience."
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@garyd9 said in Duet3 + SBC with firmware 3.2:
Possible bug: (tagging @dc42): When the "STOP" (emergency stop) button is pressed on the paneldue, it seems to disconnect the SBC from the duet3, and the connection never reestablishes. During that time, DWC displays a message "Please stand by..." with a button labeled "Reset Machine" and a moving progress bar thing that just bounces back and forth forever. (This is similar to the SBC/DWC "Emergency Stop", but when its done from DWC, everything reconnects after a few seconds.) I have no idea if this is an issue with the PanelDue, the duet3, DSF or DWC.
Thanks, I'll ask @chrishamm to look into this.
As "over-engineered" as duet boards usually are, I'm surprised they only provide a 3A on the 5V line.
We originally designed the Duet 3 for the RPi 3 B+. Also we never envisaged that anyone would want to connect both SBC and PanelDue to a Duet 3, because a HDMI touch screen connected to the Pi is provides more functionality than PanelDue. So 3A was enough. Shortly before we released Duet 3, the RPi 4 came out, with its increased power requirement.
We now recommend that the Pi is powered separately, preferably from an approved RPi PSU. The next revision of the Duet 3 MB6HC removes the jumper block that allows the Pi to be powered from the Duet. Increasing the regulator output current above 3A is not easy because we would no longer be able to use an integrated regulator and EMI control would be more difficult.
Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com -
@dc42 said in Duet3 + SBC with firmware 3.2:
@garyd9 said in Duet3 + SBC with firmware 3.2:
As "over-engineered" as duet boards usually are, I'm surprised they only provide a 3A on the 5V line.
We originally designed the Duet 3 for the RPi 3 B+.
Sorry - I was being sarcastic and complimenting your engineering at the same time. The duet boards are pretty robust, but I don't seriously expect that they provide 10A at 5V. I'm perfectly content that there's enough amperage on the 5V line to run the PanelDue.
Taking care of the "STOP" button from the PanelDue is a concern for me, however, as it really is my "panic button" when I'm standing at the printer. For that, it still works; it's just more annoying to recover from the panic.
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@garyd9 said in Duet3 + SBC with firmware 3.2:
- Possible bug: (tagging @dc42): When the "STOP" (emergency stop) button is pressed on the paneldue, it seems to disconnect the SBC from the duet3, and the connection never reestablishes. During that time, DWC displays a message "Please stand by..." with a button labeled "Reset Machine" and a moving progress bar thing that just bounces back and forth forever. (This is similar to the SBC/DWC "Emergency Stop", but when its done from DWC, everything reconnects after a few seconds.) I have no idea if this is an issue with the PanelDue, the duet3, DSF or DWC.
#1 appears to have been fixed with paneldue firmware 3.2.9. Thank you, @wilriker
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@garyd9 said in Duet3 + SBC with firmware 3.2:
- As "over-engineered" as duet boards usually are, I'm surprised they only provide a 3A on the 5V line. With typical duet engineering, and especially with the over-powered duet3 board, I wouldn't have been surprised if 50 watts were available. Anyway, the result seems to be that having a PanelDue and Pi4 both feeding power from the Duet3 is probably a bad idea. (I'd suggest that this be added to the wiki. It's likely that the same issue would occur with a Pi3.)
There is no need to worry here. That's what I run as my development environment all the time. I have a Duet 3 with a RPi 4 powered by the Duet as well as (varying versions of) a PanelDue connected to it. The increased power requirement for the RPi is only true with attached USB devices. The Pi itself does not draw very much current or at least well below the 3A it is rated for.
Of course if you populate all 4 USB slots with USB harddrives (preferably spinners) things look different.
- As "over-engineered" as duet boards usually are, I'm surprised they only provide a 3A on the 5V line. With typical duet engineering, and especially with the over-powered duet3 board, I wouldn't have been surprised if 50 watts were available.
