3DP 1000 Upgrade Help

  • Tim With Filastruder has been helping me with figuring out what is involved with upgrading a 3DP 1000 (Large Format Printer 1Mx1Mx0.5M) Printer.
    At his request I am putting this up for help from the Community. Big 2 Thumbs Up to The Folks at Filastruder!!
    3DP is now using the Duet Wifi board for their printers and will upgrade my machine for 5K plus I have to pay for Creating and Shipping Each Way (the machine is huge) so I am trying to do this upgrade in house.
    3DP has put the firmware files for the duet wifi on their page so that should not be an issue.
    When I contacted 3DP about upgrading they said I would need to re-program the stepper motors.
    They use motors from Applied-Motion.com and they are programmable. I called Applied Motion they said the motors should not have to be reprogrammed but they do have the programming software on their site that can be down loaded. The Motors are StepSERVO Integrated Motors. Any thoughts on why the motors might need programming??

    The Extruders are Bulldog and the Hot Ends are E3D Volcanoes, so I don't think there will be any issues with that.

    The current board is a RUMBA 24V.
    All wiring is labeled and should be straight forward.
    The Power going in is 240v single phase, I pretty sure one leg is powering the board, and the other is powering the 1m sq. heat bed.

    This is second generation machine (pre-Workbench series) so it does not have a bed leveling device, any suggestions on which sensor would be better with a Cartesian machine? The machine is out of Warranty so I'm on my own with it anyway.

    So my Question is ANYONE HAVE ANY ADVICE?? I am asking in advance so my down time is Minimized.
    Any items that may be needed other than the board and the touch screen?

    I will put up Photos and Comments once I get started.
    Thanks for any help in advance!

  • administrators

    What is the bed surface of that printer? The mini IR sensor might be suitable for doing bed compensation.

  • What type of motors do you have installed?
    I did a quick check on their website and looked at this example : https://www.applied-motion.com/sites/default/files/hardware-manuals/TSM17P_HardwareManual_920-0086B.pdf

    That type of motor accepts the raw step/direction/enable signals that would normally be send to the stepperdriver. The stepper driver does then the translation to the actual stepper motor (current/coil)
    The Duet (and other controllers) tell their stepperdrivers what they should do upon a step pulse when microstepping.
    Most of the polulu-based drivers on Arduino based boards support 1/16th microstepping. 1 step pulse = 1/16th of a step.

    If you use the Duet in the same mode (16 microsteps/step) this would be ok and the behaviour should be the same.
    However if you want to do more microsteps per step (The duet can produce far more step pulses per second then an Arduino based board), you will have to tell the integrated driver in the motor how to handle that. So I guess the reprogramming has to do mainly with the microsteps you want to implement.
    More microsteps is smoother movements and higher resolution … and that is also something you want to go for I suppose.

  • administrators

    You will need to connect the Step and Dir inputs to those motors to the appropriate pins on the expansion bus as for external drivers. The datasheet that Walter linked to says they need 5 to 24V signal inputs, but you may get away with 3.3V.

    I think you could connect the corresponding Enable pin on the expansion bus to the Servo On pin of the motor, and XCOM on the motor to +3.3V.

  • @ Walter You are correct I do want to increase the Micro Steps I guess that is the main point in up grading. I should be able to do this in the A-M Software. I will Contact them. Motor is the MST I have to get the model number from A-M.

    @ dc42
    My Bed is Alum Plate with LokBuild on the surface. LokBuild is the only think I have found to keep large thin prints from warping.
    On the motor it states input 12 - 70 input voltage. But I think the Power for the motor is not supplied by the board itself, I think only signal wires are connected to the board. I will look at the Wiring diagram and track that out.

    Thanks for your input!

  • administrators

    I don't know LokBuild. Is it a transparent, translucent or opaque surface? What colour is it?

  • It's opaque and orange with black see http://www.lokbuild.com/
    I've used it, but for the wrong filaments 😞

  • The LokBuild I have is actually Blue made for a distributor in the States NWA 3D.
    Walter is correct it is opaque.

    @ Walter Saw your Tag Line - So Answer me this "What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen Swallow?" Sorry Had a Monty Python Flash Back!

  • administrators

    If LokBuild is opaque blue, I think the IR height sensor should work well with it.

    What do you mean, a European swallow or an African swallow?

  • Right So IR Sensor it is then.
    I have a call into A-M about the input voltage, as you say 3.3V should work, I would expect with the holiday here I will not hear from them until next week.
    If the motor needs 5V is there a work around for that?
    All I really need at the moment is a yes or no answer as I will order the parts this weekend and I won't get them till next week.
    Thanks again for your help!

    I Don't Know that AHHHHHHHH.

  • I used LokBuild with the IR sensor for a while. It worked great until I scraped the surface trying to get parts off, making the surface shiny, and then the sensor didn't trigger on those spots.

  • When you're a king you have to know that !

    Lokbuild worked fine until I printed PC on it. Becomes shiny after a while but also didn't release the PC anymore…. Sticked too well.

  • LokBuild Sticks TOO good? I only cracked my glass bed 1M sq! I pulled up on the part instead of "scrapping" off.
    Switched to Alum Plate MUCH CHEAPER, and will not crack!
    I have found using Lokbuild without heat bed for prints that are 24+hrs and 350 to 400mm sq. I do not get as much warp and corner pull. With PETG I do need the Heat Bed.

    I do not have a sensor now so worst thing is I spent 25 bucks on something that I will use on the next project.

    Bed surface is like everything else with 3D Printing, some like this some like that, and everyone is happy to share their experiences.
    We are all looking for the Magic button to hit and get our print out perfect and under 20 minutes. A Man can Dream right?

    How do you Know she's a witch? She turned me into a Newt, well I got better. BURN HER ANYWAY!

  • @ DC42
    I was reading the Wiki and on the using external drivers page under the Overview last sentence "Otherwise, you should use 3.3V to 5V level shifting ICs such as 74HCT04 to boost the signal level to 5V and drive them. You can use the Duet expansion breakout board for this purpose."

    To get my Motors up to the 5V they need I can use your expansion break out board?
    I do have (2) motors per axis so would I need one step stick per motor?
    My motors are the TSM23P-2AG.

  • As I see it in the hardware manual (https://www.applied-motion.com/sites/default/files/hardware-manuals/TSM23P-Hardware%20Manual_920-0083B.pdf) you only need to connect the step, dir(ection) and en(able) signals. See pages 15 and 16 in the manual.
    These signals are available before the TMC's on the Duet board on these goldplated holes above or near the TMCs (David: correct me if I'm wrong).
    You will need to solder some headers on these locations.
    These motors have their own stepperdrivers (like the TMCs) build in.
    You will need to provide the same signal to both motors if they are on the same axis and turning in the same direction.

    The signals on the Duet are 3,3V, the signal levels you need for the steppers need to be at least 5V (see page 20). You will need to step up the voltage too.

  • Thanks Walter, But I have to step that up to 5V going into the motor, Correct?
    I think I need the Expansion board in order to have them in series?
    The Wiki says that the DuetWifi has "dual Z motor" inputs but does not have dual X & Y.
    I think the RUMBA that is on there now has them going into another board.

  • I have designed and built two CoreXY printers, I use ClearPath (NEMA23) from Teknic "all in one servo motors" on one and the other I use for experiments and comparison with standard NEMA17 stepper motors. I have evolved through several control boards and currently using Smoothieboards on both. The Smoothieboards have pinouts for step/direction/enable and common (negative), I see that the Duet Wifi also has pinouts for step/direction/enable also referred to by WalterSKW in the post above. It is my plan to use the Duet on both printers but I will start with the stepper based printer as my first conversion just to keep things simple. Within my learning curve.

    I did get the expansion board for use with the ClearPath servo motors, is it possible to use the pinouts on the Duet board without using the expansion board? If so where do I get the common (negative or positive, either can be used with the ClearPath)?

    I used channel materials to construct the frame of the CoreXY from Servo City, very rigged and strong, I would post a photo here but can't figure out how to import photos.

    Thanks, Ed

  • administrators

    You can connect external drivers, or motors with built-in drivers, to the pins on the expansion connector. It's simplest to connect the step+ and dir+ pins to one of the sets of step and dir pins on the expansion connector and connect step- and dir- to ground. Connect enable+ to +3.3V and enable- to the corresponding EN pin on the expansion connector.

    Do not connect external drivers to the step/dir/en test points on the Duet.


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