3 weeks in, same issue



  • So ive been trying to sort things out with my printer. I cannot seem to sort this out, so after hours of googling and reading online im still at the same point i were when i started this. Earlyer today i came over this thread (https://www.duet3d.com/forum/thread.php?id=865) and i finally thought i was about to fix my issue, however no cigar.

    I have tried everything from 0.1mm retraction to 7mm same result
    Pressure advance has been turned on and of with no benefit either way.
    Currently running 500mm Capricorn tube

    M207 S5.7 R0 F3600 T3600 Z0.1
    M572 D0 S0.1

    My full config can be found here: https://github.com/anbugecko/Hypercube-duetwifi

    So to start off with.
    Should my config.g contain:
    M83; …but relative extruder moves

    And Should i add M82 to my startup script?

    and should i check:

    Here is what my print looks like, never mind the heat issue on the pointy parts, im currently missing a partcooling fan. 🙂
    But when i had one the results were the same


    Here is a small sample of my current gcode, but this doesn't print anything, no extrusion at all.

    G90
    M83
    M106 S255
    G4 P500
    M106 S0
    M140 S55
    M190 S55
    M104 S210 T1
    M109 S210 T1
    M82
    G10
    G32
    G29 S1
    M208 S1 y-3 F3000
    G1 Y1 X1 F3000
    G11
    G1 Z0.25
    G1 X60 E9.0 F600 ; start prime
    G1 X90 E12.0 F600 ; end prime
    G10 ; retract
    G1 Z0.200 F1002
    ; process Process1
    ; layer 1, Z = 0.200
    T1
    ; tool H0.200 W0.456
    ; skirt
    G1 X132.950 Y129.390 F3600
    G11
    G1 X133.215 Y129.280 E0.0109 F360
    G1 X161.785 Y129.280 E1.0833
    G1 X162.050 Y129.390 E0.0109
    G1 X168.110 Y135.450 E0.3250
    G1 X168.220 Y135.715 E0.0109
    G1 X168.220 Y164.285 E1.0833
    G1 X168.110 Y164.550 E0.0109
    G1 X162.050 Y170.610 E0.3250
    G1 X161.785 Y170.720 E0.0109


  • administrators

    Please clarify: what exactly is the problem you are having? Is it print quality issues with the cubes in your photo? Or is it "this doesn't print anything, no extrusion at all."?

    You have selected relative extrusion in S3D, so you should preferably include command M83 in your S3D start script, not M82.

    Your M207 command will have no effect, because you are not using firmware retraction. S3D doesn't support firmware retraction, so you need to configure retraction parameters in S3D, not with M207.

    HTH David



  • Hi.

    Yeah it's the issues with the blobs on the edges of the cube. I'm running a post process script that adds g10/g11 instead of the retraction In s3d. So all in all the firmware retraction is working.

    After I added m82 it stopped printing so that's not the issue.

    But I can not get rid of the blobs, Ive been at this for weeks and can't work this out. I've never had this issues with marlin based boards. I'm on the verge of giving up


  • administrators

    How long is the Bowden tube, and what hot end do you have?



  • I think your jerk/acceleration settings might be to high. Trying lowering them by ten percent and see if it improves.



  • @Plecto:

    Yeah it's the issues with the blobs on the edges of the cube.

    Might help if you post another photo or edit the ones you've linked and circle or otherwise highlight an example of "the blobs".

    @Plecto:

    But I can not get rid of the blobs, Ive been at this for weeks and can't work this out.

    Someone asked me "how's the 3d printing going?" the other day. I realized that any normal (sane) person would look at my current output and say "Wow! Cool, you printed that thing and it works and looks great! That's amazing!" Instead all I can see are the specific issues that I've become sensitized to and think, "It's complete crap, no point in printing anything until I can get this fixed…"

    I am famously bad at diagnosing printer problems but I ask that you highlight a specific 'blob' as I see several issues (solutions are just starting ideas, not the point of the list):

    • Regular vertical lines across the sides - stepper motor vibration? Need more steps/mm, loosen your belts, vibration isolate the steppers, sacrifice to the reprap gods? (This is my current problem and now I see it everywhere…)

    • Looks like a seam on the X-Y corner in the first photo so not sure what can be done about that, but at the top and bottom and both visible corners around the X in photo 2 the corners are 'flared out'. This matches the issue in the other forum post you linked to I think. Seems like an acceleration/deceleration issue as Qdeathstar suggests with the jerk/acceleration settings, tighten your belts :-)), adjust your speeds, dunno. The fact that the flaring looks reduced for most of the seam in photo 1 also points to ramping up/down speeds of filament and or print head in one or more dimensions.

    • Slight ringing as the head accelerates from the trailing (?) edges of the letters, slightly more on the 'X' photo. Could be same as point above, or the 'bouncy' artifacts (belt spring or similar) that this object is designed to emphasize.

    • Filament not laid down evenly layer upon layer, more so in the Y photo especially the bar 'underlining' the Y. Seems a lot less in the X photo, so something different in hardware or settings between those two axes?

    • Is that underextrusion for the layers at the center of the X face?

    • Filament flow does not seem entirely consistent within a layer - especially 2 layers above the top of the Y, or maybe it is just the lighting. Again less on the X view, but note the vertical variation on the right side corner of the X face. If it were my filament I'd blame humidity and cheap quality, but lots of your areas look fine.

    • Some more random blob artifacts at the 'V' of both the X and Y characters.

    • First layer definitely laid down different than the others :-))

    So there you have lots of different issues to nitpick and chase, and from your post I'm not sure which one it is (not that I have a solution anyway, just trying to clarify). Seems like there is a quality difference between X and Y axes, is there something accounting for speed, acceleration, jerk, belt, vibration differences between these?

    @Plecto:

    I've never had this issues with marlin based boards.

    If you have/had different results on same printer and just different board, can you map all the settings between the two firmwares? Some should be identical, some will have algorithmic differences that can be analysed.

    @Plecto:

    I'm on the verge of giving up.

    You could meditate on Ian's blog comment:

    @Deckingman:

    As a change from printing lots of test pieces with no practical value, I thought it was about time I made something useful.

    Sorry. :-)) But I did laugh the first time I read it. I realized last night that because DHL tried to deliver my new stepper motors at lunchtime on Tuesday, they missed the 'bag up' day and it will be another two weeks at least before I see them. But wifey loves the 'hook solution' I implemented for something the other day, and no one will ever look closely enough at them to see the vertical lines that annoy me.



  • @dc42:

    How long is the Bowden tube, and what hot end do you have?

    E3d V6
    500mm Capricorn Tube
    Bondtech BMG


  • administrators

    For 500mm Capricorn tubing I would expect 6mm to be sufficient retraction, assuming that you are using collet clips or similar to make sure that the Bowden tube does not slide relative to the collets when you retract filament.

    Do the blobs correspond to points where extrusion stops and a travel move starts, or not?



  • @dc42:

    For 500mm Capricorn tubing I would expect 6mm to be sufficient retraction, assuming that you are using collet clips or similar to make sure that the Bowden tube does not slide relative to the collets when you retract filament.

    Do the blobs correspond to points where extrusion stops and a travel move starts, or not?

    Ive been mostly using 5.7mm retraction and the results are mostly the same.
    The blobs correspont to points where the layer starts, so on end of travel move between layers.

    Ive been printing with outside-in direction, but switching changes nothing.



  • So it's blobs on layer change which mostly means that you just need to tune the retraction. Someone pointed out above that your jerk and accelerations are high. A quick squint at your config.g shows that for your extruder, this is the case. It's entirely possible that during retraction this could "break" or "stretch" the molten filament, rather than pull it it back from the nozzle tip. So try significantly lower extrusion acceleration and jerk and/or a slower extrusion speed. Also, you have a slight Z hop. Depending on how fast your bed moves, this could introduce a pause so try disabling that too.


  • administrators

    Do you have retract on layer change enabled in the slicer?



  • @dc42:

    Do you have retract on layer change enabled in the slicer?

    David,

    The OP stated above somewhere that he's using a post processing script to add G10/G11 commands in S3D (not sure why).

    Quick question regarding Z hop in G10 - does it do the retract, then move the bed or do they happen concurrently? If it's the latter case, then Z hop might slow the retraction speed down if the bed moves slowly?


  • administrators

    To put it another way: is the OP doing retraction on layer change, either by enabling it in the slicer and having the post processing script convert the retraction/reprime commands to G10/G11, or by inserting them in post processing?



  • Since this post process script cought your attention here you go.
    all it does it to change the retraction defined in s3d with g10/g11
    So ive enabled retraction in s3d set retraction distance til 1.00mm and 6000 speed.
    However these values do nothing since they are overwritten with g10/11

    {REPLACE "G1 E-1.0000 F6000\n" "G10\n"}
    {REPLACE "G1 E0.0000 F6000\n" "G11\n"}
    {REPLACE "G1 E1.0000 F6000\n" "G11\n"}
    {REPLACE "G1 E0.0000 F1800\n" "G11\n"}
    {REPLACE "G1 E1.0000 F1800\n" "G11\n"}

    and just to clarify ive used slic3r with firmware retraction and it produces the same issues.



  • Doing a test cube now with following settings:

    Force retraction between layers is uncheck in s3d

    M201 X900 Y900 Z60 E3000 ; Maximum accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M566 X600 Y600 Z60 E300 ; Maximum jerk in mm/min

    M572 D0 S0
    M207 S6 R0 F6000 T6000 Z2


  • administrators

    @Plecto:

    Force retraction between layers is uncheck in s3d

    So your retraction settings will have zero effect on those blobs. Try checking it.



  • Result:



  • Im printing another now

    Force retraction between layers is checked in s3d

    M201 X900 Y900 Z60 E3000 ; Maximum accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M566 X600 Y600 Z60 E300 ; Maximum jerk in mm/min

    M572 D0 S0
    M207 S6 R0 F6000 T6000 Z2



  • No changes. I've swapped filament. It seems like it's as good as it gets… 😕


  • administrators

    Are you printing outside perimeters first, or the other way round?

    Maybe it's time to enable pressure advance.


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