Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks



  • @sigxcpu said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    No M122 output posted. No config posted. Those would be helpful.

    config.g has been posted some posts above.

    Here's the M122 output.
    0_1544130249131_M122.txt

    Regarding the printer config : (printer had been completely overhauled in June 2017)
    Cartesian printer
    Ultimaker 2 clone (same type of gantry and print bed) with GT2 belts and pulleys (20 teeth)
    Dual extruders : Bondtech QR3.0 and E3D V6 24V 35W heaters with PT100
    1 PWM Fan for part cooling
    X,Y and Z axis with 400 steps/rev steppers
    X, Y and Z axis with end stops for homing
    Capacitive sensor NPN NO for mesh bed leveling with adapter board
    TDK-Lambda industrial 24V PSU under an 1500 VA UPS
    1 rail with Duet3D + DC/DC 24/12V converter for fans, capacitive sensor and LED lights.
    1 rail with 24V silicon bed heater (250 * 250 mm) with SSR (command only from Duet3D)
    Duet3D Ethernet + PT100 daughter board.
    PanelDue 5" with additional wiring for the USB card reader.
    Case fan blowing on the TMC drivers + large air intake under the printer
    Duct from the PSU exhaust to outside of the case to draw hot air outside it.

    To summarize the issues :

    1. X and Y wobbling when powered on / printing 24hours per day. Not when just powered on.
    2. First layers (approx 2 first millimeter) are much more than the resolution chosen. This increases with the time the printer is powered on. But sometimes the print is good. So the parts are well over the targeted dimensions (11,69mm then 12,56, then nearly 13,5mm for a 10mm section part)
    3. After homing and bed probing, the printhead sometimes crashes in the printed when priming the hotend.

    To summarize the findings :

    • PSU is pretty steady around 24,3V
    • CPU temp is pretty steady around 32°C
    • All electronics have been cleaned
    • No overheating detected by the firmware
    • Belts tension is OK and pulleys are properly tighten
    • Gantry has been completely rebuilt in April with industrial grade bearings.
    • No signifiant play in the linear bearings / bushings nor leadscrew
    • No skipped steps noticed
    • Problem while printing is not dependent on the slicer (S3D / Cura 3.6)
    • Prints were done without any Z lifts
    • Bed and hotend temp regulation is pretty steady and close to the measured temp.
    • It's affecting the axis moves, not noticeable on the extrusion.

    My understanding is the problem is linked to the board, not mechanical.
    But it is not consistent over the time.
    Something like some capacitors on the board are going to die.



  • @v3dprinting said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    config.g has been posted some posts above.
    sorry. missed it b/c it was an attachment.

    Here's the M122 output.
    0_1544130249131_M122.txt

    Looks better than mine after 1 hour print and I don't have issues. Strangely, I have Error Status: 16. The SG values are much different than mine (1023 all except Z drive, while yours are <1023 on X,Y but I don't know what that means).

    To summarize the issues :

    1. X and Y wobbling when powered on / printing 24hours per day. Not when just powered on.

    What do you mean by wobbling? You mean powered on with motors active, right? That can be a capacitor problem, indeed.
    Aren't your problems Z related, only? At least this is what I've got from the posted pictures.

    1. First layers (approx 2 first millimeter) are much more than the resolution chosen. This increases with the time the printer is powered on. But sometimes the print is good. So the parts are well over the targeted dimensions (11,69mm then 12,56, then nearly 13,5mm for a 10mm section part)

    This could be explained by a heating part, but your errors disappear on upper layers when electronics are hotter.

    1. After homing and bed probing, the printhead sometimes crashes in the printed when priming the hotend.

    I can relate to that. One of my horizontal axes, I don't remember if X or Y, jumped to the edge before putting the first bead in center and printer resumed printing there. It happened 2 times, I don't know what was the problem.

    Try to move the Z axis motor to E1 and/or try a different power supply. I don't know how often Duet checks for the input voltage. I think that is a feature to see if your power supply takes the load (i.e heated bed).



  • @sigxcpu said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    To summarize the issues :

    1. X and Y wobbling when powered on / printing 24hours per day. Not when just powered on.

    What do you mean by wobbling? You mean powered on with motors active, right? That can be a capacitor problem, indeed.
    Aren't your problems Z related, only? At least this is what I've got from the posted pictures.

    X and Y axis were wobbling eg create a pattern like ringing but on long straight walls. Pitch is 0.9 mm approx.

    0_1544165681831_B1EE5D10-21CC-4FEA-A88A-3473FB6FD2B6.jpeg
    Since I have powered off the printer on Monday, I am not able to reproduce it. I will have a new test today as the printer is powered on since yesterday morning.

    1. First layers (approx 2 first millimeter) are much more than the resolution chosen. This increases with the time the printer is powered on. But sometimes the print is good. So the parts are well over the targeted dimensions (11,69mm then 12,56, then nearly 13,5mm for a 10mm section part)

    This could be explained by a heating part, but your errors disappear on upper layers when electronics are hotter.

    1. After homing and bed probing, the printhead sometimes crashes in the printed when priming the hotend.

    I can relate to that. One of my horizontal axes, I don't remember if X or Y, jumped to the edge before putting the first bead in center and printer resumed printing there. It happened 2 times, I don't know what was the problem.

    Issues 2 and 3 are related as the Z move is having a wrong pitch from the driver

    Try to move the Z axis motor to E1 and/or try a different power supply. I don't know how often Duet checks for the input voltage. I think that is a feature to see if your power supply takes the load (i.e heated bed).

    Forgot to say that the PSU is a 24V 400w or 450w, with dual rails. Bed is on a dedicated rail.
    Load is only 50% max.
    I’ve monitored the voltage : bet. 24.1 and 24.4V on the Duet sensor.

    Definitely it’s linked with temperature, but not consistent. It seems that the print done yesterday evening is good from the webcam view. Need to check when arriving in the office.



  • @v3dprinting said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    Definitely it’s linked with temperature, but not consistent. It seems that the print done yesterday evening is good from the webcam view. Need to check when arriving in the office.

    The part done yesterday evening is better, but not good : the first millimeters shows the same pattern with bigger layers, but less than yesterday.
    So the part is only 10,75 mm instead of 10mm.
    1_1544171912027_IMG_3049.jpg 0_1544171912027_IMG_3048.jpg

    The problem is linked with some electronic component not delivering properly when cold or hot. Impacts the drivers.



  • @v3dprinting said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    Forgot to say that the PSU is a 24V 400w or 450w, with dual rails. Bed is on a dedicated rail.
    Load is only 50% max.
    I’ve monitored the voltage : bet. 24.1 and 24.4V on the Duet sensor.

    PSU is a TDK-Lambda GWS—500—24. Delivery 500w under 24V, max current 21A.
    Definitely not overloaded.
    As the voltage is pretty steady, no sign of issues on that side.


  • administrators

    From your config.g:

    M906 X1100 Y1100 Z850 E600:600 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent

    • How did you choose the XYZ motor currents?
    • Do you have the specifications of the motors?
    • How may Z motors do you have? If more than one, how have you connected them?

    M92 X160.47 Y160.11 Z1600 E505.7:505.7 ; Set steps per mm
    M566 X360 Y360 Z24 E1200:1200 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X18000 Y18000 Z360 E2400:2400 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    M201 X1500 Y1500 Z300 E3000:3000 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)

    For an axis with 1600 steps/mm, the maximum speed and jerk look OK, but the acceleration looks rather high. Try reducing Z acceleration to 100 in the M201 command.



  • Hi Dave,

    XYZ motor current was chosen bet. 50 and 80 % of the max load of the steppers. XY are 1,8A and Z is 1,2A, 400 steps/rev

    I only have one Z motor.

    Remember that this machine had been running perfectly during nearly 1 year and half with these parameters.

    I will try to reduce the Z acceleration, but I don't think it is the point, as the problem appears only in the first millimeters on Z axis.

    And don't forget that I also have the wobbling pattern issue on X and Y too, even if I don't reproduce it at the moment.



  • I have done another test print today with the same gcode as yesterday evening.

    Same issues on Z, except the part is now 11,8 mm height instead of 10 mm.

    First 4,8mm of the part are with layers well over 300 microns instead of 200 microns.

    As it is the same gcode, the issue is definitely on the printer.



  • @v3dprinting I have an idea but it's a log shot. Before I say any more, do you use Z hop at all?



  • @deckingman

    Very very scarcely. Only when the part is a bit tricky.
    But most of the time, I need also dual extrusion, so I end to print them on my Ultimaker 3 and S5



  • @dc42

    I have changed the Z acceleration to 100
    I have printed a new test print, still the square. But with another end of spool.
    Still the same issue.

    This time the part was 10,8 mm height instead of 10mm

    0_1544183660468_IMG_3050.jpg

    I haven't switched off the printer. Just a reboot in order to take the new config.g.

    So it is not related to any skipped steps nor mechanical issue.

    I am still unable to reproduce the wobbling effect during a print.



  • I have done a manual bed leveling, presuming the mesh bed leveling was having issues due to the fact that I'm using a 3 mm glass instead of 4 mm (broken the last one this weekend 😞 ). So an additional negative value to compensate again the homing position.

    It hasn't changed anything and the first layers are still more than the 200 layer height defined.

    I am now printing the same pan as at the beginning of the thread, trying to reproduce the X and Y wobbling. But I print it in PLA.



  • I have printed yesterday evening the pan in PLA as said.

    Print was failed, layer height was inconsistent :
    First layers were too big (more than 300 microns) as in previous tests, instead of 150 microns
    Then layers were too small or null, so I had a nozzle jam, filament grinding ...

    0_1544271834482_IMG_3053.jpg

    But the print ended without errors and the total height reported by the printer was good or so (I have a +0,5 mm Z end script) for a 32mm height model.

    0_1544271876334_IMG_3054.jpg
    0_1544271909109_IMG_3055.jpg
    0_1544271939596_Capture d’écran 2018-12-08 à 11.39.58.png

    I have checked the gcode file and layer height is 150 microns

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/vha6z0k1ch076en/sauce PLA.factory?dl=0
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/0gtc76kp0i0ef3q/sauce PLA.gcode?dl=0

    The printer has been switch on since two days now (except 15min today to clean the extruder).

    I will make a reprint, but I fear I need to replace the board.



  • @v3dprinting A couple of suggestions

    1. I still think there could be a mechanical issue such as a loose pulley on the motor shaft. When you use level compensation during a print, maybe the bed moves down where it needs to but does not move back up again. That would explain the higher layers. I don't use any form of flatness or level compensation myself so I can't be sure but I believe that it tapers off. If that is the case, it would explain why the issue corrects itself when you get further into the print.

    If you are absolutely sure the pulleys are all tight and there are no mechanical issue then:

    1. Try the Z motor on a different driver such as a spare extruder drive if you have one. This will tell if there is a fault with the stepper driver.

    2. Try a different motor if you can - maybe swap for one of the other axes. If the probelm with Z is cured but you get new problems on the axis you swapped motors with, then it's a motor issue.



  • @deckingman
    I will do the checks suggested.

    I don't think of mechanical issues as the first layer is good, when the head is not crashing into the bed.

    If I have a loose pulley or belt, then I won't crash the head, as the build plate has to be raised, it exerts an effort on the nut, leadscrew, pulley and stepper, so the play will be compensated and maximum.
    As a result the build plate would be lower than expected.
    This is true when homing, doing the mesh leveling procedure or printing.

    Also, at the beginning of the problems, Z axis was working fine, but X and Y moves were shaky, creating wobbling patterns on long straight walls (with no acceleration).

    That said, the problem seems to be more global to the electronic and linked to the temperature of some components.



  • @v3dprinting It seems to me that from the outset you have made up your mind that it's a faulty board. You might be right but it's a very unusual Duet problem. I don't mean this in a bad way but I think you ought to be a bit more open minded. I bought one of the very first gen 2 boards and have been visiting these forums daily ever since. 99% of similar issues have turned out to be mechanical or some other non-Duet related problem. You could of course be one of those 1%.

    Anyway, I think you should check the pulley screws and so forth, rather than dismiss any mechanical issues out of hand. Then try swapping the driver and motor as I suggested.

    Also, if you think it is temperature related, try rigging up a fan to blow cold air over the board. That might help to prove it or otherwise.



  • @deckingman said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    Also, if you think it is temperature related, try rigging up a fan to blow cold air over the board. That might help to prove it or otherwise.

    I already have one from the beginning with this board.
    And on top I use the PSU fans to extract the hot air from the case and the PSU outside of the case with a custom duct.

    As said I will check the belt and pulleys for Z axis, do the tests on drivers and steppers.

    But I already done it for X and Y axis, without any finding and I still don't explain why I had some wobbling for the first symptoms and not anymore.

    Other finding is, during the last two failed prints, I had grinding issues (with Bond tech QR 3.0), but the nozzle wasn't clogged and there was some room below the nozzle due to the inaccurate z layer height.

    That's why I keep saying there is an electronic problem.

    But don't be mistaken, the Duet is a great board and I am very happy with it.



  • @v3dprinting said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    Other finding is, during the last two failed prints, I had grinding issues (with Bond tech QR 3.0), but the nozzle wasn't clogged and there was some room below the nozzle due to the inaccurate z layer height.

    That's why I keep saying there is an electronic problem.

    The extruder is grinding the filament and you think that is an electronic problem?


  • administrators

    How stable is your power supply voltage? The M122 report will tell you the minimum and maximum voltage measured since power up or last time M122 was run.



  • @deckingman said in Multiple issues with Duet Ethernet since 2 weeks:

    The extruder is grinding the filament and you think that is an electronic problem?

    Yes I do.
    The bondtech extruders hardly grind filament. Nozzle wasn’t clogged at all and settings were correct. At least with the temperature defined when calibrated.

    I suspect the feed rate not to be accurate and pushing too much filament. Exactly like with the Z axis making layers more than the one defined during the first 3 or 4 mm.


 

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