Help: Reduce motor noise (For A Complete Rookie)

R3play

Hi there,

Since I'm completely new to DUET and just a normal user (don't know alot about electronics) I thought I would make this post to search for some help and be safe!

First of all I'm using these motors on X Y and Z
https://e3d-online.dozuki.com/Document/120/.pdf

On the extruder I'm using this

What would be the recommended current to run these?
How can I silence these motors as they are quite noisy atm (sort of a whining noise I think at idle aswell as on movement)
I know there is this guide: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Reducing_Stand-Still_Noise

But as I have no idea what is happening there or what those settings even mean I'm afraid to do this.
Would it be possible to send me a sort of guide on how to approach this?

Thanks in advance!

Veti

From the SilentStepStick FAQ
https://learn.watterott.com/silentstepstick/faq/
A motor supply voltage of 12V is in most cases to low and in general the sound gets quieter if the motor supply voltage is above 18V

wilriker

@r3play said in Help: Reduce motor noise (For A Complete Rookie):

I know there is this guide: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Reducing_Stand-Still_Noise

But as I have no idea what is happening there or what those settings even mean I'm afraid to do this.
Would it be possible to send me a sort of guide on how to approach this?

The guide you linked already has a step-by-step guide. You cannot break anything. The worst thing they can happen is that the whining noise will be worse.

Re currents: I would try X, Y and Z with 1000mA and E with 1300mA to start with.

P.S.: also interesting/relevant: type of printer, number of Z motors (if multiple: connected in parallel or in series?), your current config.gand the used firmware version.

R3play

@veti said in Help: Reduce motor noise (For A Complete Rookie):

From the SilentStepStick FAQ
https://learn.watterott.com/silentstepstick/faq/
A motor supply voltage of 12V is in most cases to low and in general the sound gets quieter if the motor supply voltage is above 18V

Oh ok interesting.
And can I just swap my 12V power supply to let's say a 24V?
Or do I need to do any changes in the firmware or so?

@wilriker said in Help: Reduce motor noise (For A Complete Rookie):

@r3play said in Help: Reduce motor noise (For A Complete Rookie):

I know there is this guide: https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Reducing_Stand-Still_Noise

But as I have no idea what is happening there or what those settings even mean I'm afraid to do this.
Would it be possible to send me a sort of guide on how to approach this?

The guide you linked already has a step-by-step guide. You cannot break anything. The worst thing they can happen is that the whining noise will be worse.

Re currents: I would try X, Y and Z with 1000mA and E with 1300mA to start with.

P.S.: also interesting/relevant: type of printer, number of Z motors (if multiple: connected in parallel or in series?), your current config.gand the used firmware version.

Thanks!
I have a AM8 with linear rails (bowden)
2 Z-motors, don't know how they are connected....? Using both connectors on the Duet Wifi board.

config.g file:

; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 1.21)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v2 on Fri Dec 28 2018 13:58:12 GMT+0100 (Midden-Europese standaardtijd)

; General preferences
G90 ; Send absolute coordinates...
M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves

; Network
M550 P"AM8" ; Set machine name
M551 P"itsasecret: ; Set password
M552 S1 ; Enable network
M586 P0 S1 ; Enable HTTP
M586 P1 S0 ; Disable FTP
M586 P2 S0 ; Disable Telnet

; Drives
M569 P0 S1 ; Drive 0 goes forwards
M569 P1 S1 ; Drive 1 goes forwards
M569 P2 S0 ; Drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S0 ; Drive 3 goes forwards
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 X200.00 Y200.00 Z800.00 E402.00 ; Set steps per mm
M566 X300.00 Y300.00 Z12.00 E300.00 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X7200.00 Y7200.00 Z200.00 E1200.00 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X800.00 Y800.00 Z50.00 E10000.00 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M204 P700 T800 ; Lower acceleration when printing
M906 X1000.00 Y1000.00 Z1000.00 E1300.00 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

; Axis Limits
M208 X-17 Y-7 Z0 S1 ; Set axis minima
M208 X220 Y215 Z240 S0 ; Set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X0 Y0 S0 ; Set active high endstops

; Z-Probe
M574 Z1 S2 ; Set endstops controlled by probe
M307 H3 A-1 C-1 D-1 ; Disable heater on PWM channel for BLTouch
M558 P9 X0 Y0 Z1 H5 F120 T6000 ; Set Z probe type to bltouch and the dive height + speeds
G31 P25 X31 Y-8 Z2.376 ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
M557 X15:0 Y15:195 S20 ; Define mesh grid

; Heaters
M305 P0 T100000 B4138 R4700 ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0
M143 H0 S120 ; Set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
M305 P1 T100000 B4138 R4700 ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 1
M143 H1 S280 ; Set temperature limit for heater 1 to 280C
M307 H1 A390.2 C216.6 D6.7 B0

; Fans
M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1 ; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H1 T45 ; Set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on

; Tools
M563 P0 D0 H1 ; Define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0 ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Automatic saving after power loss is not enabled

; Custom settings are not configured

Veti

for 24v you need to swap/resolder the heatbed, switch heating element, switch fans.

R3play

Side question..
I have some extra 1.8° step angle motors laying around (same one as the extruder)

Can I use these aswell on the X and Y or is it more recommended to use 0.9° step angle on them?

Veti

it depends on the kinematics of your printer.
on normal cartesian printers you are talking about a resultion difference of 12.5micron to 6.25micron.
deltas are another thing though.

Phaedrux

@r3play said in Help: Reduce motor noise (For A Complete Rookie):

Side question..
I have some extra 1.8° step angle motors laying around (same one as the extruder)

Can I use these aswell on the X and Y or is it more recommended to use 0.9° step angle on them?

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_and_connecting_stepper_motors

https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Choosing_the_power_supply

R3play

Again just to be safe.
If I use the following items:

220x220x3mm Heatbed 24V
24V/40W Heater Cartridge
24V Radial Fan
24V 30mm Axial Fan
24V 50mm Axial Fan

Would a 24V 15A max. PSU be enough?

Phaedrux

Total power needed:

Bed heating power: this is effectively zero if you will be using an AC mains voltage heater. Otherwise, use the rated power of your chosen bed heater. If you might want to turn the voltage up so as to increase heating power, allow for this (power rises as the square of the voltage).

Extruder heater power: Use the power rating of your heater cartridges. If you will have dual extrusion, allow for heating both up together. If you will be turning up the power supply voltage to improve bed heating power, remember that this increases extruder heater power too.

Stepper motors: at full rated current, the power needed for each motor is its rated current times its rated voltage (if no rated voltage is specified, use the square of the rated current times the phase resistance). This is the power at standstill. To allow for driver losses and the extra power needed to create acceleration, add 50%. Multiply by the number of stepper motors.

Fans: 3W per fan is a generous allowance for small axial fans. For blower fans, work out the power requirement from the datasheet. Note the fan outputs are rated to 1.5A maximum.

PanelDue: with a 7" screen attached it draws about 3.5W.

Duet: allow 2W.

Add the power requirement of any lighting and any servos etc. that you intend to use.

preb1

Following on from R3play's request, I too would like to try and reduce the motor hiss at idle.

I have 2 Duet3d boards running a delta and a cartesian printer and I think they are great. I especially love the ease at which you can change the firmware (using 2.02 rrf) and I definately think Reprap is far better than Marlin.

However, I am still very green when it comes to programming etc.

Both printers suffer from motor hiss at idle which on the delta is not to bad but the cartesian is quite loud. I have messed about with the TOFF settings which has made a little difference. Even tried different steppers but just the same.
I have not tried upping the voltage to 24 volts yet. Still using a 12 volt PSU set at 15 volts.
I would like to try adjusting some of the other settings available but haven't a clue what the codes are. I have been reading the other posts and see that you can adjust other setting using M569 as you do for the TOFF parameter but what are the parameters. Also downloaded Chopconf-generator but haven't a clue how to run it. Looked at it in notepad++ but thats all.

Anybody help me please?

wilriker

@preb1 Sorry for getting back to you so late only.

I wrote the chopconf-generator, so questions about this might be best answered by me. Did you download the binary release from the releases page or did you download chopconf.go? In case of the latter this is not really meant for using but only if you want to modify something. So in this case go to the download page and get the version for your OS (mentioning Notepad++ I assume windows so chopconf_win_amd64.exe is what you are looking for).

Next this is a command line tool. It has not graphical user interface but you run it from cmd.exe.

You can then use it like described in the readme on Github.

$> chopconf_win_amd64.exe -toff 1

to generate a CHOPCONF value with TOFF set to 1 and everything else left at firmware defaults (just an example, I read that you tried TOFF already). The value it generates then needs to entered as M569 ... Cnnn. Which parameter influences what is probably best found in the tuning guide linked in the readme page.

preb1

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I did download chopconf_win_amd64.exe but I cannot get it to run in the cmd window. I think I need a little help here please

wilriker

@preb1 OK, taking one step back. Which value is it that you want to modify? The following values can already be adjusted via M569 (with RRF 2.02):

TOFF: parameter Fnnn
TBL: parameter Bnn
HSTRT, HEND, HDEC: paramter Yhstrt:hend or Yhstrt:hend:hdec

so unless you want to modify CHM or RNDTF (both unlikely IMHO) you don't need to use chopconf-generator at all.

I also updated the stand-still noise guide in this regard.

If you still want to use chopconf-generator here is what I just tried in my Win10 virtual machine (I am a Linux user for a long time now so I had to actually try it):

Downloaded the .exe (you already did that part)
Opened start menu, typed cmd and opened Command Prompt this way
Switched to the directory the downloaded file was (in my case I started in the user's home dir and just had to do cd Downloads
Run chopconf_win_amd64.exe (by entering this filename) with arbitrary parameters
Output is the value that needs to be put into the Cnnn parameter

preb1

@wilriker
Thanks very much. I get it now. My mistake was not changing directories.
I was interested in tinkering with the HSTRT and HEND values as I have messed about with Toff values but it did not make much difference to the noise. As I can adjust those values via M569 input (now I know the parameters) I can try that.
Thanks again for your help. Much appreciated.
Paul

Wyvern

I just swapped out a noisy X motor after all the fixes didn't work, still quiet compared to a MKS board but louder than even my dual Y axis.

It's now a 3mH vs the 5 that was in there.

Steppers make a huge difference!