Duet 3 specific categories for the forum

dc42

@CaLviNx said in Duet 3 specific categories for the forum:

If the TCT show means that full documentation is not available logic "should" have dictated that the hardware release shouldn't have taken place until after the TCT show.

Full production won't start until November, giving us time to improve the documentation. There are plenty of early adopters who are prepared to make do with less than perfect documentation, given the help that is available on the forum, and their comments will help us to write better documentation.

As we'll all be quite busy over TCT, may i suggest that for any urgent questions on Duet3/RRF3 that the documentation doesn't cover you start a thread with a title beginning with "Duet3:.

For those having difficulties getting to grips with using the Pi, you can put an SD card in the Duet containing the same folders and files as you would have for a Duet 2 running RRF3, and plug your Ethernet cable into the Duet instead of the Pi. That will allow you to sort out the changes specific to Duet 3 hardware and RRF3 without having to get to grips with the Pi at the same time. Note, if using DWC 1.22.6 then when upgrading firmware, after you have uploaded the new firmware file you should decline the offer to install it, instead send M997 manually. This is because DWC 1.22 doesn't understand the naming conventions for Duet 3 firmware.

When you have that working well, you can introduce the Pi.

A Former User

@dc42 & @T3P3Tony

Please, dont take my "devils advocate" comments of what I see as occurring with the first set of units as me trying to put the product down, I am a great supporter of the Duet Eco system.

I have 7 duet-s units at home and 11 at work, i wont use anything else.

But there needs to be a step by step "road map" for example (and im not saying my order is what it should or is correct) its just an example.

And pinning such a topic at the top of one of the forum sections might help people find what they need, some learners like to read and try to learn for themselves.

so a list of topics for example

you need the following x,y,z software/firmware on the Duet3 and SBC and software framework
this is where you can get said software. (links)
how to connect to the SBC

etc etc

dc42

It's not a step-by-step guide, but there is quit a lot at https://duet3d.dozuki.com/c/Duet_3_Hardware already. In particular, see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Duet_3_prototype_guide_for_OEMs and https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/SBC_Setup_for_Duet_3.

Danal

I purchased an early board. I converted via:

Build the PI, per https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/SBC_Setup_for_Duet_3.
For some odd reason, the SD I received was blank, so I used the first step at the above link to build an SD, and a few other bits and pieces of it, as required.
After imaging, I used https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentation/configuration/wireless/headless.md to put the Pi on my network WITHOUT every having a monitor/keyboard on the Pi (this is essentially identical to the instructions on the SBC setup link, above. I just use this because I am more comfortable with it).
That got the printer on my network, which I verified via both DWC and SSH.
I SSH login and updated everything to the latest, per the above documents. And then a general Unix update. If I recall, this is four commands:

sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade duetsoftwareframework
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

I then copied my config.g from a working printer, and rebooted (M999). Lots of error messages.
I went through config.g and commented out (with a ;### so they were more obvious) lines that caused error messages and booted. I repeated this until I received no more errors.
I used a combination of these things to add/edit statements until boot showed no errors. On many occasions, I took advantage of the console in DWC to test configuration g-codes prior to placing them in config.g and booting. Much faster/easier.
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Duet_3_prototype_guide_for_OEMs (same as above)
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Gcode (The "old" gcode doc.)
https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/RepRapFirmware_3_overview (Good list of new/changed configuration Gcodes)

That's as far as I've gotten right now, as I'm building a new printer for this lovely board, and I'm not to the point of being ready to home or etc. yet.

A Former User

@Danal

Thanks for posting, and I too know all that already.

But it shouldn't be the early adopters who are posting as you are, (And as David also posted After I have posted) this should all already have been put in place before (or at the same time) the units shipped.

It just takes a few disgruntled users to go to the worst place in the world (facebook) looking for help from armchair experts many of whom i would not trust to go to the toilet own their own in the dark. And a notion is started there that the duet 3 is the worst piece of hardware out when in fact its a combination of user error and a lack of simple but in-depth documentation.

Documentation has always been the duet eco systems weak point. Which I to a point do understand, as the hardware/software guys are concentrating on the product and they are not technical authors.

And now with the Duet3 being marketed as a unit at the more professional end of the market (not just for 3 printing) the documentation needs to be top notch more so now than ever.

Again to everyone please don't take my observations as a negative, I want this product to be a success.

Lets Play Devil's Advocate again.

Duet3D go to TCT and display their wares, which peaks the interest of a manufacturer of say small to medium size CNC plasma cutters, the head honcho stands and look at the hardware, and thinks "hmmm nice" then toddles off elsewhere. Said user gets home and thinks "lets go have a look online at the documentation for the Duet3"

deckingman

@CaLviNx If you take a gander at this post https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/11540/duet-3-mainboard-6hc-initial-production-run, it's pretty clear that these first boards were an initial, limited, production run. Furthermore, in that first post of Tony's he said "Initial documentation is available:" and posted links to that documentation.

So that was the status of the documentation when you placed your order for one of these initial production boards. You made your purchase decision based on that information so I don't really think that you have a valid argument. Perhaps you should have delayed your purchase decision until full production starts and full documentation is available, rather buy early when you knew that the documentation wasn't fully ready, and then winge and whine about it.

EDIT. ref your last sentence above, that's easy. The Duet guys make it clear that full production is set to start in November and that Documentation is still a work in progress at this stage. Everybody else seem to be able to grasp that concept,.........

A Former User

@deckingman

Im sorry but you have completely missed the point, I am NOT complaining full stop, and certainly NOT on my own behalf. I am trying to look at it from the viewpoint of the everyday purchaser who might not have the technical ability some have.

As a mechanical engineer I have carried out my own due diligence and can operate all of my duet boards with no external assistance (do you ever see me asking for assistance on the forum other than confirmation of some of the more ambiguous components ? the answer to that is NO you don't) so you have failed to grasp the concept of playing devils advocate.

November is 37 days away.

And I reiterate (not for my own use) FULL Documentation should already be in place, you cannot deny that documentation has always been the weak point of the duet eco system, yes I had 0.6 & 0.8.5 boards, so again I reiterate no matter what if the board is to be a success a firm emphasis needs to be placed on the importance of simple to follow documentation. And I still think a specific section should be made on the forum relating to the Duet3 Hardware aspects which would make it easier for many to search for assistance. If you cannot grasp the reasoning behind that concept, there is no point in saying anything more to you.

EasyTarget

@deckingman I'm not seeing @CaLviNx 'whining', he's making a point that seems valid to him (I disagree with him, by the way..the completeness of the Documentation at release will need to be better though.)

But this is exactly why there is the pre-release phase in the first place.. so problems both physical and educational can be found and corrected; and so feedback can be gathered. He's providing feedback, welcome it even if you disagree.

FWIW: I don't buy his argument that obvious incompetents posting uninformed replies on Facebook will harm the product.

wilriker

@CaLviNx said in Duet 3 specific categories for the forum:

November is 7 days away.

I don't know in which time-zone you live but for me November is one full month and 7 days away.

Danal

@CaLviNx said in Duet 3 specific categories for the forum:

But it shouldn't be the early adopters who are posting as you are...

Really?

You want more/better doc, yet links to the doc that the Duet team did write pre-release, wrapped a "this is the way I did it" is a "shouldn't"?

Gatekeep much dude?

In some ways I understand what you are saying, and your desire to contribute to improvement. At the same time, please be aware that a "cold read" of your posts, the "I'm not being negative, just trying to help", that all comes across very strongly as "Methinks he doth protest too much".

In closing, let me say the same thing to you that you are saying to Duet: "I'm just trying to improve others perception of you, to make you successful".

JoergS5

@CaLviNx I agree that the documentation should be complete in november. Until then it is more important for me that the firmware is finished and bugfree.

If Tony doesn't like a separate section for Duet3, a tagging is an option.

A Former User

I'd say if you feel the need to repeatedly make excuses for your postings, it would be akin to the old saying, if you find yourself in a hole; the first step it to put down the shovel.

Maybe its not what you say, but how you say it. Huge difference in essentially making broad generic demands for a product that at the time is not available for purchase and offering concrete constructive criticism on what to improve. So its difficult to see the intent as a desire to improve what is lacking.

A Former User

@wilriker said in Duet 3 specific categories for the forum:

@CaLviNx said in Duet 3 specific categories for the forum:

November is 7 days away.

I don't know in which time-zone you live but for me November is one full month and 7 days away.

you are quite correct thank you for bringing my mistake to light, it has been corrected.