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    4 KW Heat Bed Tuning

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    Tuning and tweaking
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    • Phaedruxundefined
      Phaedrux Moderator
      last edited by

      Tuning such a large slow heater may be problematic.

      Have you seen this page?

      https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Tuning_the_heater_temperature_control#Section_Setting_the_model_parameters_manually

      You may be able to derive appropriate values manually.

      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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      • dc42undefined
        dc42 administrators
        last edited by

        Use M307 to set the D parameter very high, e.g. to 60. Then try M303 again.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

        sozkanundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • sozkanundefined
          sozkan @dc42
          last edited by

          @dc42 Thanks for the support. Unfortunately, I am in quarantine. As soon as I finish it I will try again.

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          • sozkanundefined
            sozkan @dc42
            last edited by sozkan

            @dc42 said in 4 KW Heat Bed Tuning:

            Use M307 to set the D parameter very high, e.g. to 60. Then try M303 again.

            Hi,

            I have tried D parameter up to 500. But it still error.

            11/9/2020, 1:18:15 PM Auto tune canceled because the temperature is not increasing.
            Despite cold, heat bed actually heated to 32 celsius. It is slow but working.

            Should I increase the higher D parameter or any other suggestions?
            I am using the code for Auto tuning

            M303 H0 S45
            

            For the Configuration ;

            ; Bed Heater
            M308 S0 P"bedtemp" Y"thermistor" T100000 B4138     ; configure sensor 0 as thermistor on pin bedtemp
            M950 H0 C"bedheat" T0                              ; create bed heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 0
            M307 H0 D220 B0 S0.50                                   ; enable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit
            M140 H0                                            ; map heated bed to heater 0
            M143 H0 S100                                       ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C
            
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            • dc42undefined
              dc42 administrators
              last edited by dc42

              Check whether setting a very high D parameter actually worked by sending M307 H0, because there is a limit on the allowed value.

              There will be a new heater tuning algorithm in RRF soon, and in that algorithm I will allow for slower bed heaters.

              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

              sozkanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • sozkanundefined
                sozkan @dc42
                last edited by sozkan

                @dc42 said in 4 KW Heat Bed Tuning:

                Check whether setting a very high D parameter actually worked by sending M307 H0, because there is a limit on the allowed value.

                There will be a new heater tuning algorithm in RRF soon, and in that algorithm, I will allow for slower bed heaters.

                Thank you for your support and Saving 🙂

                I have tried the D parameter by incrementing. None of them worked.
                I will try again for different values.

                Do you mean, for now, no way before Firmware update for the slow heaters?

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                • sozkanundefined
                  sozkan
                  last edited by

                  pid.png
                  By the way,

                  I did not work in the Config file.

                  I am sorry that I did not get that I have to send the manual M307 command from the console.
                  it seems crossed the limits by console command.

                  It is still showing tuning.

                  I just wanna share the preview.

                  Phaedruxundefined nhfoleyundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • sozkanundefined
                    sozkan
                    last edited by sozkan

                    These are the result:

                    11/9/2020, 2:05:38 PM Auto tune heater 0 completed in 942 sec
                    Use M307 H0 to see the result, or M500 to save the result in config-override.g

                    ; config-override.g file generated in response to M500 at 2020-05-01 14:08
                    ; This is a system-generated file - do not edit
                    ; Heater model parameters
                    M307 H0 A233.3 C508.3 D1.3 S1.00 V24.3 B0
                    G31 Z1.2
                    ; Workplace coordinates
                    G10 L2 P1 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P2 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P3 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P4 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P5 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P6 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P7 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P8 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    G10 L2 P9 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
                    
                    

                    M307 H0
                    Heater 0 model: gain 34.9, time constant 875.1, dead time 15.4, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 24.3, mode PID
                    Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P291.4, I2.513, D3133.1
                    Computed PID parameters for load change: P291.4, I6.056, D3133.1

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                    • dc42undefined
                      dc42 administrators
                      last edited by dc42

                      I am glad that you got a result. The reported gain of 34.9 implies that the maximum reachable temperature will only be about 35C above ambient. Will that be enough for you?

                      How large is the bed?

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                      sozkanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • sozkanundefined
                        sozkan @dc42
                        last edited by

                        @dc42 said in 4 KW Heat Bed Tuning:

                        I am glad that you got a result. The reported gain of 34.9 implies that the maximum reachable temperature will only be about 35C above ambient. Will that be enough for you?

                        How large is the bed?

                        Bed is 120 cm in diameter, 5 cm thick aluminum custom self-made in 4-kilowatt consumption.
                        We can cook something or use as Lab heater. It is very functioning 😄
                        Thank you for your kindly help.
                        It seems it is working. Don`t get me wrong, but I will request a donation to your work for development from our University management. It was worth.

                        sozkanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • sozkanundefined
                          sozkan @sozkan
                          last edited by

                          @sozkan WhatsApp Image 2020-11-09 at 14.36.14.jpeg

                          Work in progress picture of Heat Bed

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                          • Phaedruxundefined
                            Phaedrux Moderator @sozkan
                            last edited by

                            @sozkan So you were able to successfully tune with M397 H0 D160?

                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                            sozkanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • dc42undefined
                              dc42 administrators
                              last edited by

                              Aha, it's Delta then!

                              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                              sozkanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • sozkanundefined
                                sozkan @Phaedrux
                                last edited by

                                @Phaedrux said in 4 KW Heat Bed Tuning:

                                @sozkan So you were able to successfully tune with M397 H0 D160?

                                Yes, it was. Today It`s warned again about the slow heating issues. I have run the PID process again this time with D60 ( because it says D160 bad command )
                                It is solved again.
                                Thank you for concerning 🙂

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                                • sozkanundefined
                                  sozkan @dc42
                                  last edited by

                                  @dc42 said in 4 KW Heat Bed Tuning:

                                  Aha, it's Delta then!

                                  Yes, it is.

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                                  • nhfoleyundefined
                                    nhfoley @sozkan
                                    last edited by

                                    @sozkan

                                    I greatly appreciate this thread as I'm trying to autotune a similar bed (very large aluminum plate with a 1.5KW heater).

                                    It seems like I get a "Bad Model Parameters" in the M307 command whenever the D value goes above 70.

                                    Since I have an (intentionally) somewhat underpowered heater, my dead time is probably right around there or a bit higher. This means I am not able to use the autotune on my heated bed, as it's still expecting more temperature rise than the heater produces. My approach now is to guestimate the model manually and then hopefully tweak it by hand once I can see how it's holding a temperature.

                                    In general, it seems worthwhile to add a parameter to the autotune function which scales its expectations based on a user-input "guess" of how long the whole heatup process should take. I think this would correct a lot of the frustrations around autotuning I've had or seen others experience before.

                                    Phaedruxundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Phaedruxundefined
                                      Phaedrux Moderator @nhfoley
                                      last edited by

                                      @nhfoley You may be interested to see this then: https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/19761/new-heater-tuning-algorithm?_=1605553260486

                                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                      nhfoleyundefined sozkanundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • nhfoleyundefined
                                        nhfoley
                                        last edited by

                                        Actually, going to refine that prior post: It seems like, if I send a fully-formed M307 command, like:

                                        M307 H1 A100 C800 D100 S1 V24.5 B0

                                        I can program a higher dead time.

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                                        • nhfoleyundefined
                                          nhfoley @Phaedrux
                                          last edited by

                                          @Phaedrux Yes, thank you. Will follow along there eagerly.

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                                          • sozkanundefined
                                            sozkan @Phaedrux
                                            last edited by

                                            @Phaedrux You guys are the best 🙂 Thank you for the progress.

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