Testing Resolution / accuracy , Your results wanted! Z Probe Results

DjDemonD · 15 May 2017, 15:18

I'm just hoping the modules will live up to expectations, have quite a few orders now, so give me a few days guys to make them. But thank you for your support.

DjDemonD · 23 May 2017, 10:23

Hi Russ, any chance of an update of the graphs with the latest results?

Russ Gries · 23 May 2017, 19:28

will do, its been on my list of To Do's . lots of excitement lately with the release of the QSN. (if you haven't see that let me know, i haven't posted it here because its not directly Duet related… but soon ill be!)
so i haven't had time to work on this project so sorry for my lack of attendance one day at a time.

let me this new data now!

Thanks for all who have added!!

~Russ

Dougal1957 · 23 May 2017, 20:03

Not heard of that Russ please do post the links?

Russ Gries · 23 May 2017, 20:13

DjDemonD and dc42

can you run the test 2 times ( please post one more run of each. I need more data to do the equally with the rest of the data!)

also David, can you run the IR probe you have built, do you have it installed on something you can test? that one is a real mystery still know one has given data on it anywhere! Thanks!

Jrlederer,
That was kind of you to gift a Bord!
Can I ask you to trade an old version 0.8.5 for a Duet Wifi? I have a good never used ( was for a project that i haven't finished yet) 0.8.5 that i did some testing with. then i upgraded that new Delta to a duet wifi. I would just sell it and get a Duet Wifi but no funds for that…
( hey mamma always said its never a bad idea to ask)

and for some reason you say yes but dont want the 0.8.5 ill do a give a give away on my YT channel.. ( sponcerd by you )

ok.

Here is the data from AndreS
still waiting on he second run from you other guys! ( please)

your data added to the workbook.

Higher rezhttp://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Projects/3D%20printer/micro%20switch%20Z%20probe%20Data/Bed%20Probes%20accuracy%20others%20added.jpg

looking for more! I want to make a video on this some time so if there are more users why haven't contributed please do so soon!
Thanks!!!

Russ Gries · 23 May 2017, 20:27

@Dougal1957:

Not heard of that Russ please do post the links?

ok i posted it here so we dont mess up this thread
https://www.duet3d.com/forum/thread.php?pid=15107
~Russ

DjDemonD · 24 May 2017, 17:20

Okay so second run for Piezo20 Hotend Z-Probe www.precisionpiezo.co.uk

Stationary:
Bed probe heights: -0.111 -0.116 -0.116 -0.121 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.111 -0.116 -0.111 -0.116 -0.111 -0.111 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.111 -0.116 -0.111 -0.121 -0.111 -0.116 -0.111 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116 -0.111 -0.116 -0.116 -0.116, mean -0.115, deviation from mean 0.003
Done printing file

Moving:
Bed probe heights: 0.004 0.017 0.013 0.019 0.010 0.013 0.013 0.014 0.017 0.014 0.013 0.014 0.013 0.017 0.019 0.022 0.019 0.019 0.013 0.018 0.010 0.010 0.017 0.017 0.019, mean 0.015, deviation from mean 0.004
Done printing file

Russ Gries · 24 May 2017, 19:37

ok updated Charts.

I found a few errors on my data selection so I corrected those, That change a few results. but , all for the better.

its all correct now…

also, i added Davids data but would like to have the other data set. all ways better to have a pool of data as a one time run can make you look to good hehe

your data added to the workbook.

Higher rezhttp://open-source-energy.org/rwg42985/russ/Projects/3D%20printer/micro%20switch%20Z%20probe%20Data/Bed%20Probes%20accuracy%20others%20added.jpg

dc42 · 25 May 2017, 07:25

Russ, if you have a Duet 0.8.5 that you don't want, you can probably find a buyer for it on the reprap.org forum.

My delta is down for maintenance right now, I'll generate another set of date when it is running again

DjDemonD · 1 Jul 2017, 14:51

New Data, Precision Piezo Titan/Aero Piezo Z-probe bracket https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2404904

15:48:16Bed probe heights: 0.005 0.005 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.005 0.000 0.005 0.005 -0.005 -0.005 0.000 0.000 0.005 0.000 0.005 0.005 0.000 -0.005 0.000 0.005 0.000 -0.005 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 -0.005 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000, mean 0.001, deviation from mean 0.003
Done printing file
15:47:10M32 0:/gcodes/cartesian_Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode
File 0:/gcodes/cartesian_Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode selected for printing
15:46:55Bed probe heights: -0.015 0.000 0.005 -0.005 0.000 -0.005 0.000 0.005 0.005 0.005 0.000 0.000 -0.005 0.005 -0.005 0.000 -0.005 0.000 0.005 -0.005 -0.005 0.000 -0.005 0.000 -0.005 0.000 -0.005 0.005 -0.005 0.000 0.000 0.000 -0.005 0.005 -0.005 0.000, mean -0.001, deviation from mean 0.004
Done printing file
15:45:47M32 0:/gcodes/cartesian_Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode
File 0:/gcodes/cartesian_Probe_Testing_Single_Point_36_probes_P_values.gcode selected for printing

WZ9V · 24 Jul 2017, 00:02

Tevo Little Monster with BL-Touch converted to Duet WiFi and 0.9 degree steppers on X, Y, Z.

7:50:34 PM: Bed probe heights: 0.149 0.161 0.155 0.158 0.149 0.155 0.158 0.155 0.152 0.143 0.136 0.146 0.115 0.102 0.090 0.036 0.021 -0.003 -0.020 -0.026 -0.023 0.018 0.061 0.121 0.130, mean 0.098, deviation from mean 0.066

7:56:14 PM: Bed probe heights: 0.149 0.183 0.186 0.155 0.152 0.083 0.049 0.021 0.005 -0.014 -0.026 0.002 0.058 0.118 0.155 0.177 0.186 0.186 0.149 0.146 0.130 0.111 0.086 0.043 0.018, mean 0.100, deviation from mean 0.070

7:58:47 PM: Bed probe heights: 0.015 0.015 0.008 0.015 0.018 0.018 0.021 0.015 0.015 0.018 0.018 0.015 0.021 0.015 0.015 0.018 0.018 0.018 0.015 0.011 0.015 0.011 0.015 0.018 0.005 0.008 0.008 0.011 0.018 0.018 0.018 0.018 0.015 0.015 -0.004 -0.010, mean 0.014, deviation from mean 0.006

8:01:26 PM: Bed probe heights: -0.020 -0.026 -0.029 -0.029 -0.032 -0.035 -0.032 -0.035 -0.029 -0.035 -0.039 -0.039 -0.039 -0.035 -0.042 -0.042 -0.042 -0.035 -0.035 -0.023 -0.017 -0.001 0.024 0.046 0.068 0.080 0.102 0.108 0.118 0.115 0.118 0.124 0.127 0.127 0.136 0.140, mean 0.021, deviation from mean 0.069

Probably explains my troubles getting a consistent first layer.

fcwilt · 24 Jul 2017, 00:41

I still have not figured out how to get the kind of results you all are getting.

I am using the dc43 IR unit and it works well but something must be wrong with my build.

One thing that might be important is that repeated calibration runs get better after the 2nd or 3rd but then begin to get worse.

Have no idea that that means.

Frederick

DjDemonD · 24 Jul 2017, 14:49

IMO both the BLtouch and IR sensor have their limitations, BL touch is not as accurate as it really needs to be, the notion that if a probe is within 50 microns its good enough is clearly not correct. IR works fine if you have an evenly reflective surface to IR, and on a delta, no effector tilt. In practice neither of these conditions are easy to meet. IR on a cartesian with an evenly reflective surface is a good prospect. Join the piezo revolution guys

dc42 · 24 Jul 2017, 15:35

…or wait for our delta effector, which is close to availability. See https://duet3d.com/wiki/Smart_effector_and_carriage_adapters_for_delta_printer.

number40fan · 24 Jul 2017, 15:37

I have seen on rare occasions a .00* with my IR probe. Most of the time I am between .010-.020

fcwilt · 24 Jul 2017, 16:43

Hi,

To remove any issues with my Z-probe can I use the "paper strip" method on the nozzle touching to bed to perform a calibration?

Thanks.

Frederick

fcwilt · 24 Jul 2017, 16:44

@dc42:

…or wait for our delta effector, which is close to availability. See https://duet3d.com/wiki/Smart_effector_and_carriage_adapters_for_delta_printer.

I am certainly willing to give it a try if it helps me locate my problems.

As a long term solution I don't know if it will help me as I am attempting to equip my printers with Diamond hotends which, of course, need a different mount.

Thanks.

Frederick

WZ9V · 24 Jul 2017, 19:58

As you may have already noticed I ordered a Piezo from you right after I posted those results

I was getting decent results until I foolishly decided to have it do a quick calibration before each print like David talked about in his blog. That's when the BL-Touch inconsistency truly bit me. I started getting first layer adhesion problems that shifted from spot to spot on the build plate. I even tried adding in the G29 mesh leveling but I still could get good adhesion at all spots on the bed using PrintBite. Hopefully I can get deviations like other posted in the 0.005 or less range as opposed to my current close to 0.1 range with BL-Touch. BTW the Tevo Little Monster comes with the BL-Touch from the factory and I had hoped it would work well because people at MRRF 2017 seem to like it on their printers. I'm not impressed with it though.

@DjDemonD:

IMO both the BLtouch and IR sensor have their limitations, BL touch is not as accurate as it really needs to be, the notion that if a probe is within 50 microns its good enough is clearly not correct. IR works fine if you have an evenly reflective surface to IR, and on a delta, no effector tilt. In practice neither of these conditions are easy to meet. IR on a cartesian with an evenly reflective surface is a good prospect. Join the piezo revolution guys

number40fan · 24 Jul 2017, 20:14

Or you can paint the bottom of the glass black.

DjDemonD · 24 Jul 2017, 21:12

You can but it's still an offset probe though, which can mean nothing or can be a source of frustration. With our Piezo system, and David's new system, the nozzle is the probe, so you swap from buildtak to glass and just hit calibrate/level and print. Sure you might need to babystep 50-100 microns if the surface hardness is quite different, but the only variable is z offset and we are talking 0.1mm between soft and hard surfaces.

I have huge respect for the ir probe, compared to the inductive and capacitative probes it was originally designed to better it was a big step forwards, in almost every way, and is a lovely unit. But times have moved on, especially where deltas are involved, my IR sensor now lives in my parts bin. I like the mod using it indirectly with a rod as the probe but it's still offset in x and y, and a few graphics on your bed surface and your entering height differences at each probing point, which is a tedious workaround.

Leverless high quality microswitches are as accurate and repeatable (slightly better in some cases) than piezo, but that's within one probing run/one deployment, if you test with deploy, probe, stow and repeat you'll see repeatability start to drift.

I've only just started to play with underbed Piezos but so far the sensitivity is amazing. I reckon you could blow on the bed and it would register a trigger, maybe not quite that sensitive but it's very sensitive. This is a plausible solution for deltas and diamond hotends at present.