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Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?)

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  • undefined
    bricoletout
    last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 08:23

    Hi,

    I'm in the 3d printing community for years as a hobbyist (I'm printing parts for RC cars).

    My employer wants to buy a printer. They asked me to help them to choose a good printer between 5000$ and 10000$.

    I know, as a hobbyist, that a core XY with duet3d controller, slice engineering hotend and bondtech extruder is a good choice but I don't find a "ready to print" printer with this equipment.

    What we need :

    • Be able to print asa, nylon, cf nylon and other good polymers (not peek or very high temp for now) so we need to reach 300°C (330-350°C would be greater for high temp nylons).
    • Heated bed with 100°C minimum.
    • Enclosure.
    • 300x300x300mm of volume.
    • Better with a non web base slicer.
    • Non proprietary filaments.
    • Good support

    In this price range there is Ultimaker S5, Raise3D, Airwolf3d, Makerbot, Markforged...

    I will study in depth this market but I'm asking for suggestions 😉

    Which printer would you choose beetween 5k and 10k$ ?

    Do we know the "industrial printer" who comes with a duet3d ?

    Thank you for your answers.

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 08:53 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      Veti @bricoletout
      last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 08:53

      @bricoletout
      you can already rule some out.

      ultimaker s5 build volume is for example 330 x 240 x 300 mm

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 09:00 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        bricoletout @Veti
        last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 09:00

        @Veti You're right. I'm building a sheet to compare all the specs...

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • undefined
          Veti
          last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 09:07

          i dont know much about industrial printer.

          if i were to build a printer for that specs i would consider building a voron 2.4, but its that is not ready to print.

          there is a sort of commercial version of it https://www.formbot3d.com/products/vivedino-core-xy-fully-enclosed-3d-printer that uses a duet based board.

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 09:12 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            bricoletout @Veti
            last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 09:12

            @Veti Yes I would go for the Voron also but it isn't ready to print. I will look at your link, thank you.

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 09:40 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              fcwilt @bricoletout
              last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 09:40

              @bricoletout said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

              @Veti Yes I would go for the Voron also but it isn't ready to print. I will look at your link, thank you.

              I personally would not use a voron design.

              The additional issues associated with moving the XY gantry on the Z axis would be my concern.

              One person reported that a computer simulation indicated that Z belt stretch was a possible problem as the center of mass of the XY gantry was constantly changing.

              I see no upside to the design and a possible downside.

              CoreXY designs are currently quite popular but there are also Ultimaker designs and MarkForged designs to consider.

              Just my two cents.

              Frederick

              Printers: a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

              undefined undefined 2 Replies Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 09:52 Reply Quote 0
              • undefined
                Veti @fcwilt
                last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 09:52

                @fcwilt said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                One person reported that a computer simulation indicated that Z belt stretch was a possible problem as the center of mass of the XY gantry was constantly changing.

                compare that to beds that are only suspended at one side like in the ultimaker, which can cause wobble. i think this is more of a theoretical problem than a practical one.

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 09:59 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  fcwilt @Veti
                  last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 09:59

                  @Veti said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                  @fcwilt said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                  One person reported that a computer simulation indicated that Z belt stretch was a possible problem as the center of mass of the XY gantry was constantly changing.

                  compare that to beds that are only suspended at one side like in the ultimaker, which can cause wobble. i think this is more of a theoretical problem than a practical one.

                  I'm not a fan of cantilever bed designs but they are not an inherent feature of Ultimaker XY kinematics.

                  I've seen cantilever bed designs on CoreXY printers and I would not be surprised if there are other kinematics where folks have tried cantilever beds.

                  But that still leaves the question what is the upside to a voron design?

                  Frederick

                  Printers: a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 10:04 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    Veti @fcwilt
                    last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 10:04

                    @fcwilt said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                    But that still leaves the question what is the upside to a voron design?

                    its a iterative design for printing high temperature filaments well.

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 13:19 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      bricoletout @fcwilt
                      last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 11:02

                      @fcwilt said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                      @bricoletout said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                      @Veti Yes I would go for the Voron also but it isn't ready to print. I will look at your link, thank you.

                      I personally would not use a voron design.

                      The additional issues associated with moving the XY gantry on the Z axis would be my concern.

                      One person reported that a computer simulation indicated that Z belt stretch was a possible problem as the center of mass of the XY gantry was constantly changing.

                      I see no upside to the design and a possible downside.

                      CoreXY designs are currently quite popular but there are also Ultimaker designs and MarkForged designs to consider.

                      Just my two cents.

                      Frederick

                      Thank you for your contribution. Actually the Voron is out because it isn't assembled. I will consider other option.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • undefined
                        jay_s_uk
                        last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 11:18

                        I'll build you a voron for $10k 😁

                        Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • undefined
                          dc42 administrators
                          last edited by dc42 14 Jan 2021, 12:04

                          The smaller Tractus printers may fit your budget and size requirements, https://tractus3d.com/.

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 13:47 Reply Quote 0
                          • undefined
                            fcwilt @Veti
                            last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 13:19

                            @Veti said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                            @fcwilt said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                            But that still leaves the question what is the upside to a voron design?

                            its a iterative design for printing high temperature filaments well.

                            That doesn't really tell us why the XY gantry should be moved as opposed to the bed.

                            Frederick

                            Printers: a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

                            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 13:36 Reply Quote 0
                            • undefined
                              Veti @fcwilt
                              last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 13:36

                              @fcwilt

                              because its lighter than the bed?

                              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 14:09 Reply Quote 0
                              • undefined
                                bricoletout @dc42
                                last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 13:47

                                @dc42 said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                                The smaller Tractus printers may fit your budget and size requirements, https://tractus3d.com/.

                                Thank you, I will have a look at it.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  fcwilt @Veti
                                  last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 14:09

                                  @Veti said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                                  @fcwilt

                                  because its lighter than the bed?

                                  I have no idea. Steppers are not exactly lightweight devices.

                                  And it's not like the bed needs to move up/down quickly in the way the XY axes need to move so does the weight even matter?

                                  While there is some wiring to the bed it is less than the wiring to the XY gantry.

                                  It's just a gut feeling but moving the bed seems the better approach.

                                  Frederick

                                  Printers: a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Luke'sLaboratoryundefined
                                    Luke'sLaboratory
                                    last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 16:06

                                    I will be launching 2 printer series "soon" that will be enclosable as well as using Duet3D hardware (with the option of either RRF or klipper).
                                    You can see the first unit of my slinger series I shipped to an early beta customer in action at 7k Acceleration here. That's a 400x400 bed moving that fast! 😄 Results - The top print was from that video!

                                    The keys to my printer design are as follows:

                                    1. Any hotend/extruder combo - it adds some bulk, but the gantry plates are sturdy aluminum and have a variety of holes for mounting whichever hotend you'd like. The unit shipped was a e3d Volcano, but on my personal unit I run a slice magnum with an orbiter extruder. I have a Lily pellet extruder on-order and will also be making adapters.
                                    2. Scalable volume - Both printer series are any-sizable, they rely on common joints that just have scaled extrusion/linear rail.
                                    3. High temp capable - The slinger specifically was designed for bolt-on panels that will enclose the volume quickly and cheaply without complex machining. Bed is capable of 140C, after that alternative options will be needed for magnets on the removable sheets
                                    4. Nothing is proprietary about it - this will be released open-source just like my Stablebot Core design currently is. Run any slicer, firmware, filament you want.

                                    The other printer is my stablebot Core, with the repo here: https://github.com/lukeslaboratory/Stablebot-Core
                                    I have the parts on-hand for a single-extruder build which I will be using a slice magnum, but the same principles apply. This machine currently runs a D3 6HC with A 3HC extender, but with a single-extruder option, could run on a D3 Mini 5+ with stepper expansions.

                                    Luke
                                    http://lukeslab.online

                                    undefined undefined jrocklandundefined 3 Replies Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 20:10 Reply Quote 0
                                    • undefined
                                      bricoletout @Luke'sLaboratory
                                      last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 20:10

                                      @Luke-sLaboratory said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                                      I will be launching 2 printer series "soon" that will be enclosable as well as using Duet3D hardware (with the option of either RRF or klipper).
                                      You can see the first unit of my slinger series I shipped to an early beta customer in action at 7k Acceleration here. That's a 400x400 bed moving that fast! 😄 Results - The top print was from that video!

                                      The keys to my printer design are as follows:

                                      1. Any hotend/extruder combo - it adds some bulk, but the gantry plates are sturdy aluminum and have a variety of holes for mounting whichever hotend you'd like. The unit shipped was a e3d Volcano, but on my personal unit I run a slice magnum with an orbiter extruder. I have a Lily pellet extruder on-order and will also be making adapters.
                                      2. Scalable volume - Both printer series are any-sizable, they rely on common joints that just have scaled extrusion/linear rail.
                                      3. High temp capable - The slinger specifically was designed for bolt-on panels that will enclose the volume quickly and cheaply without complex machining. Bed is capable of 140C, after that alternative options will be needed for magnets on the removable sheets
                                      4. Nothing is proprietary about it - this will be released open-source just like my Stablebot Core design currently is. Run any slicer, firmware, filament you want.

                                      The other printer is my stablebot Core, with the repo here: https://github.com/lukeslaboratory/Stablebot-Core
                                      I have the parts on-hand for a single-extruder build which I will be using a slice magnum, but the same principles apply. This machine currently runs a D3 6HC with A 3HC extender, but with a single-extruder option, could run on a D3 Mini 5+ with stepper expansions.

                                      Great work, your table moves a lot !

                                      I need a ready to print printer, not a kit, for my company.

                                      Luke'sLaboratoryundefined 1 Reply Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 20:30 Reply Quote 0
                                      • Luke'sLaboratoryundefined
                                        Luke'sLaboratory @bricoletout
                                        last edited by Luke'sLaboratory 14 Jan 2021, 20:30

                                        @bricoletout I will happily ship a completed Core or Slinger in whatever configuration you'd like for a fair price. I've sent you a DM, otherwise my email is Luke@Lukeslab.online

                                        Luke
                                        http://lukeslab.online

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • undefined
                                          fcwilt @Luke'sLaboratory
                                          last edited by 14 Jan 2021, 21:00

                                          @Luke-sLaboratory said in Choose a printer in the 5k-10k$ range (with duet3d ?):

                                          The other printer is my stablebot Core, with the repo here: https://github.com/lukeslaboratory/Stablebot-Core

                                          That picture does not exactly fill me with a feeling of confidence.

                                          Frederick

                                          Printers: a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duet 3 hardware running 3.4.6

                                          Luke'sLaboratoryundefined Phaedruxundefined 2 Replies Last reply 14 Jan 2021, 21:01 Reply Quote 0
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