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Rebuilding MakerBot R2X, implications of E steps/mm

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  • undefined
    paralepsis
    last edited by paralepsis 19 Jul 2021, 16:53

    Hi,

    I'm rebuilding a R2X with a DuetWifi board (my second build) and have it all working relatively nicely. One thing I've noticed is that the steps/mm with the stock (1.8 degree) extruder motor and extruder is very low with 16x microstepping: 96.275! From reading prior posts I get the impression that this is quite low, that I would ideally be in the ~800 steps/mm range (e.g., where a Titan Aero would be).

    Because this printer doesn't have a very large build plate, I was thinking of trying to tune for relatively thin layers (0.05mm?) and more detailed parts. I'm concerned that that E resolution won't be adequate, but I'm neither sure how a problem would exhibit itself nor how I would detect it with Duet diagnostic information.

    Beyond that, I'm interested in thoughts on use of higher levels of microstepping. From reading prior posts I understand that this creates more work for the Duet, but I suspect I can push this up to 32x+ in this scenario without worry? How would I know if I had asked too much of the Duet?

    In the mean time I've found a Moons stepper with similar torque and 0.9 degree steps to get me into a better regime w/out leaving 16x microstepping. The PS has been upgraded and should be fine with the increased current requirements this entails. Of course this too increases the work for the Duet, but feels like an obvious first step.

    Thanks in advance for your help!

    Rob

    Railcore II 300XL w/ Duet 3 & RRF 3.5rc4, Makerbot R2X w/ Duet 2 WiFi & RRF 3.4

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    • undefined
      Phaedrux Moderator
      last edited by 19 Jul 2021, 18:15

      Don't let the small number of e steps deter you. The Ender3 has similar ungeared extruder and 1.8 motor and a bowden system and can still achieve very nice detailed prints.

      Though if you wanted to improve resolution you could swap the motor for a 0.9 degree one, or switch to a geared extruder system, or increase the microstepping which may help a bit. x32 or x64 should be fine.

      So you're on the right track, but it may not make as big of a difference as you might think.

      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

      undefined 1 Reply Last reply 19 Jul 2021, 18:38 Reply Quote 0
      • undefined
        paralepsis @Phaedrux
        last edited by 19 Jul 2021, 18:38

        @phaedrux Thanks! Any hints on how I would tell if this was an issue?

        Railcore II 300XL w/ Duet 3 & RRF 3.5rc4, Makerbot R2X w/ Duet 2 WiFi & RRF 3.4

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        • undefined
          Phaedrux Moderator
          last edited by 19 Jul 2021, 19:15

          During low layer height prints with small nozzle and low flow rates you may get uneven extrusion though I can't say if it would actually be noticeable in practice.

          I would say that the extruder itself isn't really ideal for your intended application and replacing the extruder with a modern 3:1 geared design would be the best option.

          The other thing to consider with tiny layer height is the z axis resolution and stability.

          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

          undefined 1 Reply Last reply 20 Jul 2021, 01:35 Reply Quote 0
          • undefined
            paralepsis @Phaedrux
            last edited by 20 Jul 2021, 01:35

            @phaedrux understood. I'll be looking around at alternatives for carriage / extruder but in the mean time will try 0.9 degree and 32x microstepping to see where things are.

            Z is 400 steps/mm at 16x microsteps, not horrible.

            Railcore II 300XL w/ Duet 3 & RRF 3.5rc4, Makerbot R2X w/ Duet 2 WiFi & RRF 3.4

            undefined 1 Reply Last reply 5 Aug 2021, 17:00 Reply Quote 0
            • undefined
              paralepsis @paralepsis
              last edited by 5 Aug 2021, 17:00

              Just to follow up on this, swapping in a 0.9 degree motor was a no brainer and helped things. However, when ironing 0.1mm layers, I was still seeing artifacts at 16x microstepping that I couldn't eliminate until moving to 32x microstepping, which appears to have done the trick.

              Up to 64x microstepping seems to be fine on my Duet2 with these sorts of workloads, no hiccups reported. Haven't tried further as there appears to be no need.

              Thanks again!

              Railcore II 300XL w/ Duet 3 & RRF 3.5rc4, Makerbot R2X w/ Duet 2 WiFi & RRF 3.4

              undefined 1 Reply Last reply 6 Aug 2021, 02:47 Reply Quote 1
              • undefined
                tmicke @paralepsis
                last edited by 6 Aug 2021, 02:47

                @paralepsis said in Rebuilding MakerBot R2X, implications of E steps/mm:

                Just to follow up on this, swapping in a 0.9 degree motor was a no brainer and helped things.

                Do you have any before and after pictures? That would be very interesting to see.

                I am currently thinking of changing to 32x or 64x microstepping as well.

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 6 Aug 2021, 13:41 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  paralepsis @tmicke
                  last edited by 6 Aug 2021, 13:41

                  @tmicke These have a coat of filler primer on them but will give you an idea of where I ended up with 16x and 0.9 degree, sort of in the middle of the process. I don't have a corresponding 32x build at this point, but they are cleaning up further.

                  Image from iOS.jpg Image from iOS (1).jpg

                  Railcore II 300XL w/ Duet 3 & RRF 3.5rc4, Makerbot R2X w/ Duet 2 WiFi & RRF 3.4

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 6 Aug 2021, 14:00 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    tmicke @paralepsis
                    last edited by 6 Aug 2021, 14:00

                    @paralepsis
                    Thanks for the pictures. It looks like a fun project.
                    I will have to test to raise the microstepping and see what happens. The printer I’m playing with is a really cheap one that has a ordinary M5 as Z lead with a (I think) pitch of 0.75mm so it’s less then ideal 🙂

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 6 Aug 2021, 14:33 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      paralepsis @tmicke
                      last edited by 6 Aug 2021, 14:33

                      @tmicke Thanks! Good luck!

                      Railcore II 300XL w/ Duet 3 & RRF 3.5rc4, Makerbot R2X w/ Duet 2 WiFi & RRF 3.4

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