I could use some help
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@fcwilt I’ve never changed where any of the endstops are mounted. If I understand, in RRF, the X and Y endstops should be classified as “LOW”, not HIGH?”, correct?
And if I change those High to Low classifications, M119 will report that when the are depressed, they will be at Min, not Max?
RRF should change their Low and High to Min and Max, or, change their Min and Max to Low and High. The way RRF is now is creating confusion with how DWC reports the functions of endstops (min and max).
Mac
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@fcwilt that is a very good idea, and I am going to make that video today. Thanks, Frederick!
Mac
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@mac said in I could use some help:
@fcwilt I’ve never changed where any of the endstops are mounted. If I understand, in RRF, the X and Y endstops should be classified as “LOW”, not HIGH?”, correct?
Yes
And if I change those High to Low classifications, M119 will report that when the are depressed, they will be at Min, not Max?
Hopefully
RRF should change their Low and High to Min and Max, or, change their Min and Max to Low and High. The way RRF is now is creating confusion with how DWC reports the functions of endstops (min and max).
It couldn't hurt to be consistent.
Frederick
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@fcwilt EXACTLY!
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I tried to make a video, but it just didn't work out. There are enough crimping videos on youtube already also.
We changed the steps from 4000 (which is the typical response according to Duet3D), to 400 (on Ian's advice).
I tidied up the wiring with zip ties, and now we're back at it, testing this and that.
Mac
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@mac Okay, the first bit of info I'd like to share: on the Endstops page of RRF, Z is set as Z-Probe at the location: Low end (versus High end). Because I'm not homing yet, BLTouch hasn't done anything. M119 is reporting Z: not stopped, Z probe: not stopped. (I was depressing the Z endstop - to no avail.)
Moving along here: 50mm is is 39.6875 mm in real life. I'm not going to swear by this, but the printer's moves towards the rear are relative consistent: it's 50 mm's is reality's 39.6875 mm's.
Finally, changing the steps from 4000 to 400 took care of that obnoxious noise the Z axis was making.
That's my report for today. Z sounds just as quite as X and Y. All of the axises are going the right direction.
Should I try to home Z? Nope, it's not happening. Is that because I sent the M564 H0 S0 command?
Mac
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@droftarts @fcwilt Homing update: X homed quite well, Y homed, but didn't come back far enough. When I asked Z to home, the print-head shuddered for a moment, then started to descend. Unfortunately, there was no bed beneath it for the BLTouch to sample.
So that's the latest wrinkle in all of this.
Mac
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@mac said in I could use some help:
@droftarts @fcwilt Homing update: X homed quite well, Y homed, but didn't come back far enough. When I asked Z to home, the print-head shuddered for a moment, then started to descend. Unfortunately, there was no bed beneath it for the BLTouch to sample.
So that's the latest wrinkle in all of this.
Mac
As you may recall I home with a Z Endstop.
I use the Z Probe for:
- setting the Z=0 Datum
- creating heightmaps
- leveling the bed
Some folks think having a Z Endstop when you have a Z Probe is foolish but I swear by it.
All of my printers have both and the all home with the Z Endstop. It can be quicker and the homing code is simpler.
Did you perhaps disable the M574 for the Z Endstop?
Frederick
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits, a custom MarkForged style, a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY from kit and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.6
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@mac change the X and Y steps per mm to 100. It is set to 80 in the last config.g you posted, but we worked out a while back that it should be 100. That should get the movement distance correct on those two.
Ian
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@fcwilt I wanted to have both. But selecting one precludes the other. Unless you know a way to have both in RRF?
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@mac you can use both, but there’s not much point. Homing with the Z endstop requires it to be configured with M574, and then a homing move of the axis to the endstop Homing with the probe does not need to be configured with M574 on Z (ie it doesnt need ‘M575 Z1 S2’ see M574 in the GCode dictionary) it just needs a move so the probe is over the bed, ideally in the centre, before running G30.
Ian
TronXY X5S with Duet 3 MB6HC and Roto toolboard : Cartesian bed-slinger with Duet 3 Mini 5+ WiFi and 1LC : RRP Fisher Delta v1 with Duet 2 Maestro : Polargraph with Duet 2 WiFi
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...........and just to confuse things even more, I have neither a probe, nor an end stop. Although I guess having the hot end on a kinematic mount such that the bed touching the nozzle breaks a contact, is both a probe and an end stop.
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@mac said in I could use some help:
@fcwilt I wanted to have both. But selecting one precludes the other. Unless you know a way to have both in RRF?
No it does not.
If it did how could all of my printers have both?
M574 can configure an Z endstop just like your X or Y endstop.
M558 and G31 configure a Z probe.
Frederick
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits, a custom MarkForged style, a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY from kit and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.6
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@droftarts said in I could use some help:
@mac you can use both, but there’s not much point. Homing with the Z endstop requires it to be configured with M574, and then a homing move of the axis to the endstop Homing with the probe does not need to be configured with M574 on Z (ie it doesnt need ‘M575 Z1 S2’ see M574 in the GCode dictionary) it just needs a move so the probe is over the bed, ideally in the centre, before running G30.
Ian
We are going to have to agree to disagree.
Homing with a Z probe requires homing X and Y first.
And since Z hasn't been homed it's position is unknown thus you end up with four Z relative moves (2 for X, 2 for Y) to be sure it is clear of the bed while homing X and Y.
And an endstop can home faster than a BLTouch can.
So to me faster homing and simpler code is more than enough reason to have a Z endstop - it's not like it is an expensive item.
Frederick
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits, a custom MarkForged style, a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY from kit and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.6
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@fcwilt said in I could use some help:
I use the Z Probe for:
setting the Z=0 DatumI guess you home Z first to the Z endstop, then home X, then home Y, then... probe Z?
How does that work if you have a power cut, and then resume? You have no way of knowing where the X and Y is before homing Z, which homes down onto the print.
A better use for a Z endstop is as a max Z endstop, so it can recover from a power failure without hitting the print, and then continue with the print. It can also check that the Z axis is or isn't at full height during the small relative move.
And since Z hasn't been homed it's position is unknown thus you end up with four Z relative moves (2 for X, 2 for Y) to be sure it is clear of the bed while homing X and Y.
I rarely bother homing axes individually, and generally use homeall.g. That lifts Z, homes X and Y at the same time, moves to the centre and homes Z. So it's one relative move (+5mm in Z) before X and Y is homed. So yes, there's relative move where the Z axis could hit the top of travel, but it's so rarely at max Z. And if you have a max Z endstop, that small relative move can be checked.
So to me faster homing and simpler code is more than enough reason to have a Z endstop - it's not like it is an expensive item.
Faster how? You can set the Z probe speed to whatever you want. You can do a fast probe, then a slow one, just like you do with an endstop (two speeds can be set in M558 F parameter). Faster because it's less moves? Like a second faster because it doesn't lift Z before probing? But then you set Z datum to 0 after anyway, which takes extra time?
Simpler code? Homing Z after X and Y means you can move to the centre of the bed area (where most prints are actually printed) with a G1 command, and set the Z datum with G30. Two commands. I'm not seeing where that is more complex.
Expensive? Absolutely not. But unnecessary, if you already have a Z probe, and comes with extra wiring.
What I'm trying to say is please don't encourage a newbie (ie @Mac) to go down a road that suits you, but makes it harder for him to get support with at a later time, because it's not how most people do it as far as I'm aware. That axes are homed X, Y then Z if you command G28 and don't have a homeall.g, it is clearly the intention of the writer of the firmware that it happens in that order.
Ian
TronXY X5S with Duet 3 MB6HC and Roto toolboard : Cartesian bed-slinger with Duet 3 Mini 5+ WiFi and 1LC : RRP Fisher Delta v1 with Duet 2 Maestro : Polargraph with Duet 2 WiFi
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@fcwilt knowing what it can do is helpful. Knowing how to code it so it can do those things is what I need to understand. Yes, I know, read the documentation. I'm on it, but I'm also trying to answer the question I asked at the beginning of this thread. Which has not been answered yet, because if it had, my printer would be homing, which it's not.
I'm going to unplug my BLTouch now, and chock it's demise up to some kind of objection of it, even though I enjoyed watching it go across the bed of my BLV-Anet A8 during a 16 point survey.
Mac
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@droftarts said in I could use some help:
What I'm trying to say is please don't encourage a newbie (ie @Mac) to go down a road that suits you, but makes it harder for him to get support with at a later time, because it's not how most people do it as far as I'm aware. That axes are homed X, Y then Z if you command G28 and don't have a homeall.g, it is clearly the intention of the writer of the firmware that it happens in that order.
Ian
You are entitled to your opinion but I absolutely disagree with your view of things.
Try doing this with only a Z probe:
Frederick
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits, a custom MarkForged style, a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY from kit and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.6
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@mac said in I could use some help:
@fcwilt knowing what it can do is helpful. Knowing how to code it so it can do those things is what I need to understand. Yes, I know, read the documentation. I'm on it, but I'm also trying to answer the question I asked at the beginning of this thread. Which has not been answered yet, because if it had, my printer would be homing, which it's not.
I'm going to unplug my BLTouch now, and chock it's demise up to some kind of objection of it, even though I enjoyed watching it go across the bed of my BLV-Anet A8 during a 16 point survey.
Mac
Is your BLTouch not working?
Because you do want a working Z probe for the things you need to do such as setting the Z=0 Datum or Bed Leveling.
Frederick
Printers: A FT-5 with the 713 upgrade bits, a custom MarkForged style, a small Utilmaker style, a small CoreXY from kit and a E3D MS/TC setup. Various hotends. Using Duets (2 and 3) running 3.4.6
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@fcwilt Check your link, it should be https://youtu.be/0U9VH40K3RY
You mean like this? https://youtu.be/ItAonH9IVy0
Ian
