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    Laser filament monitor

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    Filament Monitor
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    • dansker61undefined
      dansker61
      last edited by

      I'm wondering if detection can be improved by adding a reflector on one or both sides of the filament channel?

      You surely do not want the laser to reflect on itself, but the beam is hitting a curvature (round filament) and that means reflection to the sides. Maybe it would help to pick up those reflections and send them back. Thin stripes of aluminum foil might do.

      Quick pencil drawing…
      Reflectors

      Not sure why the image doesn't load, but the link works also

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      • deckingmanundefined
        deckingman
        last edited by

        I'm sure that the prototypes will be subjected to rigorous testing, so if detection needs to be improved the necessary steps will be taken.

        Ian
        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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        • idaho creatorundefined
          idaho creator
          last edited by

          I like the simplistic idea of the laser. I have one of the magnetic sensors and had to take it off because it drove me nuts when the magnet would slide away from the sensor. Although when it work properly it worked well. Its going on my delta as soon as I finish it.

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          • BikingVikingundefined
            BikingViking
            last edited by

            Hi folks, very interested in this when/if it reaches production. I was just wondering though about the possibility of using some sort of ultrasonic sensor which could detect density and hence be more accurate?

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            • dc42undefined
              dc42 administrators
              last edited by

              I don't think you could detect filament motion using ultrasound because the filament surface s too smooth. Also you would need to use high frequency ultrasound to get the wavelength shorter than the filament diameter.

              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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              • fmaundefined
                fma
                last edited by

                What about using OpenCV? This is similar to the laser sensor, but it would allow to measure the diameter. It would need a decent GPU-based board (like NVidia's ones). Who said overkill? 😉

                Frédéric

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                • pao_wikhanundefined
                  pao_wikhan
                  last edited by

                  hi David,
                  would it be an issue if laser versus transparent filaments? i mean even a tiny light can trigger the sensor even if the light is refracted by a clear transparent filament. just a thought.

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                  • dc42undefined
                    dc42 administrators
                    last edited by

                    I tested with a transparent PETG filament and the laser had no trouble tacking it. Black filament was more of a problem.

                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                    • pao_wikhanundefined
                      pao_wikhan
                      last edited by

                      interesting. so the darker the color there would be a higher inconsistency?
                      would like to get my hands on one to tinker with.

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                      • Slidrundefined
                        Slidr
                        last edited by

                        Currently i have some spools of black PLA filament which tends to clog. Perfect time for betatesting if you need someone running it under "real user conditions".

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                        • Qdeathstarundefined
                          Qdeathstar
                          last edited by

                          Apparently pet-g is the hardest filament to detect. So, if you get that one done, you are golden.

                          I wonder if putting the sensor past the extruded on a bowden setup makes it read better (since now it has tooth marks that might make it easier to see)

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                          • dc42undefined
                            dc42 administrators
                            last edited by

                            Yes that occurred to me too. However, the optical sensor would need to be protected from filament dust produced when the hobbed shaft grinds the filament.

                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                            • Qdeathstarundefined
                              Qdeathstar
                              last edited by

                              what about a laser before the reader to etch little lines into the filament?

                              nvm, you’d need quite the laser to make that work….

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                              • Dougal1957undefined
                                Dougal1957
                                last edited by

                                @dc42:

                                Yes that occurred to me too. However, the optical sensor would need to be protected from filament dust produced when the hobbed shaft grinds the filament.

                                And it wouldn't work after a RDD like the Nimble or Flex3drive so it has to go before them

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                                • Qdeathstarundefined
                                  Qdeathstar
                                  last edited by

                                  You could create something secondary to create the notches, then clean the filament but that likely just creates other issues and failure modes.

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                                  • S1lencerundefined
                                    S1lencer
                                    last edited by

                                    Anything new about this apparatus?
                                    Will it be prefered against the old version? and when will we normal (actually maby not so normal) humans be abel to get hold on these things?

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                                    • dc42undefined
                                      dc42 administrators
                                      last edited by

                                      At present the laser sensor is not as reliable as the rotating magnet one. We have some more work to do to see whether we can improve it.

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                      • Markdndundefined
                                        Markdnd
                                        last edited by

                                        Since the laser approach seems to be causing problems the suggestion of using ultrasound may not be as impractical as you think.

                                        It is commonly used for highly accurate non-invasive flow measurement of gasses and liquids which you have to admit are pretty smooth. Sensing is based around doppler effects of minor differences in internal density.

                                        The main advantage if it could be made to work is that it would work through the feed tube - just clamp on and measure.

                                        I don’t know how well it would handle highly homogenous filaments but I suspect there would be suffucient internal structure to make it work.

                                        You’d also have to source a suitable transducer / sensor system.

                                        I don’t know if you can get transducers small enough, the pipes in a domestic gas meter are around 25mm so our sensor would need a field of operation 10 times smaller though they may be made for lab equipment.

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                                        • dansker61undefined
                                          dansker61
                                          last edited by

                                          Why do we want/need a filament sensor?

                                          Me personally, to stop the print if the flow of filament stops for any reason, e.g. due to a clocked nozzle.

                                          If the sensor can measure the exact length of filament extruded, that would be totally cool and open the door for dynamically maxing out the feeder speed for any filament. That would be a dream come true…

                                          But, how about making that a requirement for filament sensor v2?

                                          For starters, detection of that blocked nozzle can probably be accomplished with less fancy measures, and likely cover the immediate needs of most users. How about adding a timer? If no movement is detected within 1-2 seconds of the stepper engaging, then something might be wrong. This should greatly reduce the sensitivity requirement for any type of sensor. Due to the normal pressure between extruder and nozzle, a short period of time should have no significant impact on the ongoing print, as filament will still be flowing.

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                                          • dansker61undefined
                                            dansker61
                                            last edited by

                                            The ultrasound idea from Markdnd is interesting, but isn't it so that ultrasound transducers have problems with linear movement? They detect rotation (not possible in this scenario) and radial movement, but an object passing by in a straight line is not so good.

                                            I might be wrong, but believe that an ultrasound solution would require a mechanism to "wobble" the filament on its way past the transducer. If that is accomplished, then a disc type transducer might work. These are used in many applications, e.g. string music instruments, and are available in diameters down to about 10mm. They are also very thin and cheap.

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