Orion not reliable
-
I stopped using my orion after having simular problems. During tests it worked very well and was accurate and repeatable but during printing there was too much play in the mount causing wobble of the hotend.
Increasing preload on the peizo made the hotend sort of rigid enough but made the peizo far less responsive and reliable. It seems you need the perfect balance of preload on the screws but after 3 weeks of fiddling, loctite and reassembling I could not get satisfactory results from it.
I may give it another chance in the future but I think it will need some epdm or foam grommets on each screw to reduce wobble and a slight redesign of the mount.
-
Maybe the developer can take care again of this thread?
@Moriquendi maybe?
-
Something was mentioned to me by another customer that I hadn't thought to include in the manual. This customer was having issues with unreliable results in certain parts of the bed, he solved the problem by zip-tying the wires from the hotend (heater and thermistor) and especially the Orion wires to the carriage with a bit of slack so that they could not apply changing forces to the Orion.
I also notice that you have the fans on during probing. Try turning them off and see whether it helps, the vibration from the fan can cause spurious triggering.
Idris
-
@moriquendi said in Orion not reliable:
Something was mentioned to me by another customer that I hadn't thought to include in the manual. This customer was having issues with unreliable results in certain parts of the bed, he solved the problem by zip-tying the wires from the hotend (heater and thermistor) and especially the Orion wires to the carriage with a bit of slack so that they could not apply changing forces to the Orion.
The fan is always off.
Maybe I need to tighten them more? I have them fixed with zip ties
As I can see it with my eyes, the probing process is fine.
I will do another test later this day:
G29 with single probe.
Find out the 'worst' value.
Use this spot for G28 Z
and do it there many times and see what I get.
-
I thought your part cooling fan was on in the video?
When you changed the carriage and the problems came back, did you change from using the groovemoutt Orion top supplied with the kit to using the grey integrated carriage in the picture?
Idris
-
@Moriquendi
The carriage is basicly always the same. Before I got a direct mount with BMG and pancake stepper motor. The last values were reliable and good. Even with fan running. Since one week the fan is always of to eleminate the bad affectsThen I changed the design to bowden. I removed the mount parts for direct drive and decreased the height. I did not change the rest.
I never used the groovemount you shipped. I always use my integrated, where I got bad and the very good values, too.
Here is the picture of the "old" mount.
-
More hours of testing and still not reliable values. I removed all cables and even the filament tube.
I changed to another carriage, which is like mine but I had the hope that is better, but not.
Sometimes I can I got differences up to 1 mm, which I could see with my eyes.
The z Probe and the first mesh value got a difference like 0.006 mm, fine, Rest not
-
G32
VS
Fail of Orion G29
done in the same minutes
-
Do you have another printer you can use to reprint the lower orion mount? I have made some changes to it which I believe will improve repeatability and mechanical reliability.
I haven't a chance to test properly but if you want to give it a shot, you are welcome to.
I'm using red 40-A-L o-rings on the bottom of the piezo, with about 20% compression by tightening the 4x mounting screws. I've modified the mount so that the o-ring compression is enough to keep the hotend steady but the contact on the peizo is much lighter than before.
Reduced the height and diameter of those bosses so they only located the o-rings.
Reduced the height of the center ring to match about 20% compression on the o-rings.
Tighten evenly until the centre ring is touching the piezo. You should still have a rigid mount but with 0.2-0.5mm compression when tapping.
Here is the .stl, make sure you print in 0.1mm layer height or similar.
0_1537990342746_PiezoOrionRemix.stlThese are the o-rings:
I will hopefully be able to spend some time testing it in the next few weeks but for now if anyone is able to share their thoughts that would be very helpful.
-
I just gave it a quick test and can confirm this has made a substantial improvement. I'm currently in the middle of moving house but will definitely spend some more time testing when I can. There are a few other improvements to be made when I get the time. Compression when tapping lightly is actually much less than 0.2mm, I would say 0.05-0.1mm depending on how tight the screws are.
-
To chime in here my Orion has been pretty stable for me right out of the box. BUT, lately I find that without changing my config file my first layer height has reduced to almost nothing. I'm not sure yet what may have caused this to happen. The o-ring mod and the stiffer upper mount another user designed both look like welcome improvements. I'm already using the stiffer upper mount printed in Taulman 910. For the moment I have to monitor my first layer and baby step increased distance to get my prints started.
-
Thanks for your help, nice work!
I don't know if you will do your improvements, I thought I bought a well working system and got many hours and weeks of disapointment.
As I can see, my differences are nothing mechanical, the bed is tapped always the same and the values are not matching what I see with my eyes.
BTW: I moved my carriage to https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2617424
which is the same I made myself. -
Why does the G32 4 point probe differs so hard at the same points like in big mesh?
The G32 seems realistic, as I manual leveled it there.
-
@hevilp "Why does the G32 4 point probe differs so hard at the same points like in big mesh?"
I don't know is the honest answer, this is not a problem I have seen before. It is expected that the results from mesh probing will be a little different from four point probing, simply moving the printer causes that but it should not be as much as you're seeing.
How is the Z-axis supported on your printer? Can you add a couple of probe points to your Bed.g one in the centre of the bed, maybe one in the middle of each side?
On my X5s there are two lead screws, left and right, and four linear bearings. When I started using the Orion on the X5S I would see a domed bed, higher in the centre because even the very light force of the nozzle touch would cause the bed to wobble, except in the centre where it was supported by the leadscrews.
Idris
-
Last night while doing a home before printing it probed the bed twice as usual then drove the nozzle until it punctured the BuildTak, compressed the bed springs then tried to break all the bed mounts before I finally managed to hit the red button. I also find that often the carriage homes in some random place after a print finishes unless I home multiple times. I am using stall for XY (40% torque), and the Orion for Z. The entire homing process is very unreliable, BUT works exceptionally well when it does work. I'm not sure how much is Duet, and how much is mechanical issues.
-
@hevilp can you upload the. csv file for both g29 and g32?
