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    Extruder acceleration/jerk and tuning

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    Tuning and tweaking
    extrusion tuning extruder acceleration extruder jerk
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    • deckingmanundefined
      deckingman @Ringo1508
      last edited by deckingman

      @ringo1508 said in Extruder acceleration/jerk and tuning:

      @deckingman, how did you calculate the "maximum acceleration that the motors will give me for the mass and bed size"?

      It's a long, long time since I did the calculations but I used a spread sheet to do the calcs. This was later updated and improved upon by user @wilriker and he posted it online somewhere. Sorry but I can't off hand find a link. Maybe he'll see this post and jump in or if not, try sending him a PM.

      Basically it comes down to Force = Mass X acceleration so if you knowe the mass and the force, you can calculate the acceleration..............................

      ....................As I'm in a generous mood, I've just dug out my old spreads sheet which went something like this:

      Quoted holding torque = 59N.cm at max current.
      Assuming 85% max current is used then torque becomes 50.15 N.cm
      Take 70% fudge factor for loss due to micro stepping gives 35.61 N.cm
      Use 50% fudge factor for loss at speed gives 17.8N.cm
      Pulley diameter = 12mm, so radius =6mm (0.6cm)
      So available force = 29.7 N
      X carriage mass at that time was 1.67Kgs
      So acceleration becomes 29.7 / 1.67 = 1.77m/sec^2 or 17,767 mm/s^2.
      But assume only 10% of this for a single micro step then becomes 1,777 mm/s^2

      As I said, there were lots of fudge factors in the calculation and some things missing but IIRC the result was a conservative estimate. @wilriker did a better job of the calculations than I managed.

      Once you know the maximum accelerations, then the maximum attainable speed (assuming an initial velocity of 0) can be calculated from sqrt(2 x acceleration x length\2). The length would be the diagonal across a rectangular bed or the diameter of a circular bed.

      HTH

      Ian
      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

      Ringo1508undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • Ringo1508undefined
        Ringo1508 @deckingman
        last edited by

        @deckingman awesome!! Thank you so much.

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • wilrikerundefined
          wilriker
          last edited by

          For completeness here's the link to my online Maximum Acceleration Calculator. 🙂

          Manuel
          Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
          with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
          My Tool Collection

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • deckingmanundefined
            deckingman
            last edited by deckingman

            @Ringo1508 I told you @wilriker would likely step in.

            @wilriker Thanks man (uel). 👍

            Edit. Manuel - you should put a link yo that in the Wiki (if you haven't already).

            Ian
            https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
            https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

            wilrikerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • wilrikerundefined
              wilriker @deckingman
              last edited by

              @deckingman said in Extruder acceleration/jerk and tuning:

              @wilriker Thanks man (uel). 👍

              If you summon me I come. 😂

              Manuel
              Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
              with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
              My Tool Collection

              deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • deckingmanundefined
                deckingman @wilriker
                last edited by

                @wilriker said in Extruder acceleration/jerk and tuning:

                @deckingman said in Extruder acceleration/jerk and tuning:

                @wilriker Thanks man (uel). 👍

                If you summon me I come. 😂

                I must stop polishing that old lamp..........

                Ian
                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                wilrikerundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • wilrikerundefined
                  wilriker @deckingman
                  last edited by

                  @deckingman said in Extruder acceleration/jerk and tuning:

                  I must stop polishing that old lamp..........

                  😂

                  I put a link to the calculator at the wiki entry for M201 - though I must admit that it feels a bit strange to "promote" my own tools in the official GCode documentation.

                  Manuel
                  Duet 3 6HC (v0.6) with RPi 4B on a custom Cartesian
                  with probably always latest firmware/DWC (incl. betas or self-compiled)
                  My Tool Collection

                  deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                  • deckingmanundefined
                    deckingman @wilriker
                    last edited by

                    @wilriker The Wiki is there for the benefit of the entire community. You have made your tool avaible, also for the benefit of the entire community. Therefore it is right and proper that there should be a link to your tool in the Wiki.

                    Ian
                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                    • dc42undefined
                      dc42 administrators @mrehorstdmd
                      last edited by

                      @mrehorstdmd said in Extruder acceleration/jerk and tuning:

                      1. M593 to cancel ringing- does it affect retraction tuning?

                      No, it doesn't.

                      The M566 jerk setting affects how well M593 works. High jerk settings make M593 less effective, or totally ineffective.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • DocTruckerundefined
                        DocTrucker
                        last edited by

                        Not mentioned fine tuning of extrusion temp in that original list. It would seem logical to go for linear/non linear extrusion correction checks as soon as your happy with extrusion temp and e-steps/mm.

                        Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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