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Compensate for thermal expansion?

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Smart effector for delta printers
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  • undefined
    Edkirk
    last edited by 23 Jun 2019, 16:15

    This is a Delta with Smart Effector, I believe the expansion is in the frame. I can get the first layer I want with M665 Hxxx setting running mesh grid compensation. But when I start a new print at a later time and my shop temperature is 15 or 20 degrees different the first layer is off enough to ruin the first layer. My core xy has the optical sensor which is what I use for the z probe/end stop, the delta uses the end stop switches which are opposite the bed, the core xy is perfect regardless of room temperature. How to sense and adjust bed on first print after homing using end stops?

    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 23 Jun 2019, 16:26 Reply Quote 0
    • undefined
      deckingman @zapta
      last edited by 23 Jun 2019, 16:22

      @zapta said in Compensate for thermal expansion?:

      @deckingman said in Compensate for thermal expansion?:

      if it is a probe situated near the nozzle, then that will automatically take care of any thermal expansion.

      Yes, but only at the point of Z homing, right? Can't the thermal expansion deform the bed in other areas (that is, relative to the Z home probing point)?

      Personally I'd have thought that as ambient temperature is evenly spread over the entire bed (or frame) then any thermal expansion would be uniform and it would be most unlikely that any distortion would occur of one section in relation to another. It's not impossible, because physical constraints will play a part but highly unlikely IMO.

      Ian
      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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      • undefined
        deckingman @Edkirk
        last edited by 23 Jun 2019, 16:26

        @edkirk Then if it is a delta with a smart effector, the nozzle itself is the probe isn't it? Sorry, I don't know much about Deltas but I thought the smart effector utilised a Peizo sensor. If that is the case, then surely all you need to do is a single probe using G30 before each print?

        Ian
        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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        • undefined
          Edkirk
          last edited by 23 Jun 2019, 17:48

          Hey Guys, thanks for the replies. Most of my experience has been with my Core XY's, https://hackaday.io/project/12618/gallery#dcfc875d8e7f5cd9b5e055366f7bde6b.
          I have two that I designed and built and have awesome results. My experience with Deltas is fairly new in relation to my experience with Core XY which I home to the bed with the optical sensor and that is it, always the same. But I am impressed with the print quality of my small Delta, I built it to experiment with the Smart Effector which I found very interesting. I am sure there is something to explain how to home the Smart Effector to the bed but I haven't found it. I run bed compensation to see where the nozzle is in relationship to the bed.

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          • undefined
            dc42 administrators @Edkirk
            last edited by dc42 23 Jun 2019, 18:25

            @edkirk said in Compensate for thermal expansion?:

            Is there a way to probe bed before print? How to compensate for thermal expansion? First layer thickness varies with with room temperature, I get very thin first layer when room is cool and thick when warm. If machine is really cool nozzle will actually contact bed restricting extrusion. Or is there a way to home Z to bed for first layer?

            If you have a Z probe, it's simple: just before printing, move the nozzle to about 5mm over the centre of the bed and run G30. If you home Z using the Z probe, you probably do this already to home Z. If instead you home Z using an endstop, do this immediately before printing (after heating the bed and extruder) and don't re-home between doing this and starting the print. So if your slicer start GCode includes G28, add the move to bed centre and G30 after that.

            On a delta printer you can alternatively run G32 just before printing.

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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            • undefined
              Edkirk
              last edited by 24 Jun 2019, 00:47

              Thank you, I put G30 in the starting script, adjusted Z in G31. Works great, will check in the morning when it is cooler. Ed

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              • undefined
                Edkirk
                last edited by 24 Jun 2019, 01:00

                Another question, when I run the G30 in the starting script it is very slow, how to adjust the speed?

                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jun 2019, 02:02 Reply Quote 0
                • undefined
                  Phaedrux Moderator @Edkirk
                  last edited by 24 Jun 2019, 02:02

                  @edkirk said in Compensate for thermal expansion?:

                  Another question, when I run the G30 in the starting script it is very slow, how to adjust the speed?

                  You could use something like this:

                  https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/11018/bl-touch-fast-homing/2

                  Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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                  • undefined
                    Edkirk
                    last edited by 24 Jun 2019, 03:48

                    Thanks, I wrote it in the starting script, experimenting with speeds and number of probes, I think first probe fast followed by 3 slow probes. Fun little dance.

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 24 Jun 2019, 09:09 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      dc42 administrators @Edkirk
                      last edited by dc42 24 Jun 2019, 09:09

                      @edkirk said in Compensate for thermal expansion?:

                      Thanks, I wrote it in the starting script, experimenting with speeds and number of probes, I think first probe fast followed by 3 slow probes. Fun little dance.

                      If you have already homed Z, you can use a G1 command to position the nozzle about 5mm above the centre of the bed before you do the G30. Then it only has to probe 5mm.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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