Bed heater tuning questions
-
Hello all,
I am having issues with the heated bed holding temp as well as it takes a very long time to warm up. I am currently waiting for it to get to room temp before I recalibrate it and am looking at the current settings in config-overide.g
; Heater model parameters M307 H0 R0.168 C358.600:358.600 D7.17 S1.00 V24.2 B0 M307 H1 R2.211 C192.400:192.400 D8.94 S1.00 V24.2 B0However the Tuning wiki it references A C and D parameters where instead of A it is R on my code. Am I assuming correctly that the A parameter (Model gain) is the the R value?
Thanks,
T -
My bed is 1100mm X 1100mm and has a Silicone heater mat that is powered by and independent 120V power controller by the board through a Solid State Relay from automation direct.
-
The calibration failed because target temp was not reached. Any Ideas?
-
I was tuning it for 100C, this printer only runs ABS, so target bed temp is 110C
-
What firmware version are you using?
Post you config.g.
That's a very large bed. How did the tuning process go?
-
@Phaedrux
The printer was built by the previous person that held my job. Its used to make Positives for fiberglass molding. He never got it really working, Ive gotten good prints off it but its a constant clean up of shoddy work, pretty much rewired the entire thing as best I can with what I have access to.Firmware was updated to the 3.2 on 1-5-21
Here is config.g; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 3) ; executed by the firmware on start-up ; ; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool v3.2.2 on Fri Jan 22 2021 11:13:01 GMT-0600 (Central Standard Time) ; General preferences G90 ; send absolute coordinates... M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves M550 P"Caymas 3D Printer" ; set printer name ; Network M552 S1 ; enable network M586 P0 S1 ; enable HTTP M586 P1 S0 ; disable FTP M586 P2 S0 ; disable Telnet ; Drives M569 P8 R1 T2.5:2.5:5:5 S0 ; physical drive 8 goes forwards M569 P6 R1 T2.5:2.5:5:5 S1 ; physical drive 6 goes forwards M569 P2 S0 ; physical drive 2 goes forwards M569 P5 R1 T2.5:2.5:5:5 S0 ; physical drive 5 goes forwards M569 P3 S0 ; physical drive 3 goes forwards M584 X6 Y8 Z2:3 E5 ; set drive mapping M671 X-10.0:1200.0 Y450.5:450.5 S3 ; Set z motor relative locations M350 X16 Y16 Z16 E16 I1 ; configure microstepping with interpolation M92 X320 Y320 Z640 E80 ; set steps per mm M566 X200.00 Y200.00 Z12.00 E120.00 ; set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min) M203 X3000.00 Y3000.00 Z340.00 E4000.00 ; set maximum speeds (mm/min) M201 X200.00 Y200.00 Z20.00 E250.00 ; set accelerations (mm/s^2) M906 X2000 Y2000 Z2800 E800 I30 ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout ; Axis Limits M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1 ; set axis minima M208 X1170 Y1100 Z1100 S0 ; set axis maxima ; Endstops M574 X1 S1 P"!xstop" ; configure active-low endstop for low end on X via pin xstop M574 Y1 S1 P"!ystop" ; configure active-low endstop for low end on Y via pin ystop M574 Z1 S2 ; configure Z-probe endstop for low end on Z ; Z-Probe M558 P1 C"zprobe.in+zprobe.mod" H5 F240 T3600 ; set Z probe type to unmodulated and the dive height + speeds G31 P500 X0 Y-69.85 Z1.55 ; set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height M557 X100:1170 Y100:1100 S100 ; define mesh grid ; Heaters M308 S0 P"spi.cs2" Y"thermocouple-max31856" ; configure sensor 0 as thermocouple on pin bedtemp M950 H0 C"bedheat" T0 ; create bed heater output on bedheat and map it to sensor 0 M307 H0 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for the bed heater and set PWM limit M140 H0 ; map heated bed to heater 0 M303 H0 S60 ;Tune for 60C M307 H0 R0.168 C358.6 D7.17 S1.00 V24.2 M143 H0 S120 ; set temperature limit for heater 0 to 120C M308 S1 P"spi.cs1" Y"thermocouple-max31856" ; configure sensor 1 as thermistor on pin e0temp M950 H1 C"e0heat" T1 ; create nozzle heater output on e0heat and map it to sensor 1 M307 H1 B0 S1.00 ; disable bang-bang mode for heater and set PWM limit M303 H1 S200 ;Tune for 200c M307 H1 R2.211 C192.4 D8.94 S1.00 V24.2 M143 H1 S320 ; set temperature limit for heater 1 to 320C M500 ; Fans M950 F0 C"fan0" Q500 ; create fan 0 on pin fan0 and set its frequency M106 P0 S0 H-1 ; set fan 0 value. Thermostatic control is turned off M950 F1 C"fan1" Q500 ; create fan 1 on pin fan1 and set its frequency M106 P1 S1 H1 T45 ; set fan 1 value. Thermostatic control is turned on ; Tools M563 P0 D0 H1 F0 ; define tool 0 G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; set tool 0 axis offsets G10 P0 R0 S0 ; set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C ; Custom settings are not defined ; Miscellaneous M575 P1 S1 B57600 ; enable support for PanelDue M911 S10 R11 P"M913 X0 Y0 G91 M83 G1 Z3 E-5 F1000" ; set voltage thresholds and actions to run on power loss M501M303 H0 S100
Auto tuning heater 0 using target temperature 100.0°C and PWM 1.00 - do not leave printer unattendedThen
Auto tune cancelled because target temperature was not reached
The tuning cancelled itself after 25 minutes of trying. Lately it takes about an hour to get up to heat. I did S100 because everything I print on this machine is ABS and needs 110C generally.
-
Try tuning again, but try a more conservative temp to start with. Try 50c. Or whatever temp it can get up to within 20 minutes or so.
How well insulated is the bed and heater?
What wattage is the heating pad?
How thick is the plate?
-
The bed is a 1/4" aluminum base plate with 1/2" of cork, then the silicone mat then the print surface another 1/4" aluminum plate on top. Not how I would have made it, but its what I got.
I'm not sure the wattage of the pad, it was apparently custom made in china. Similar ones online are around 750W
-
@Phaedrux I will attempt to tune it again in the morning, its not going to cool by the time we close today. I will update when I run the tuning.
-
Yeah that's a big plate.
Another option might be to add a thermistor embedded in the plate itself that way it has a better idea of the heating and cooling speed. The problem with such large heat sinks and powerful heaters is that the thermistor is on the pad itself, so it gets hot fast, but then then cools down as the plate takes the heat, and then once the plate is hot, it takes a long time to cool down.
-
@Phaedrux This was the result of the calibration this morning, I'm going to attempt to start a print and see if I am having the same temp drop issue.
; Heater model parameters M307 H0 R0.181 C263.693:263.693 D7.71 S1.00 V24.1 B0 M307 H1 R2.211 C192.400:192.400 D8.94 S1.00 V24.2 B0H0 is the bed
-
@Phaedrux After calibration to 60C, I attempted to warm up to 110C and it is stopped and hovering at around 79.3C, I tried to adjust it like the tutorial saidby reducing the Gain value, but no change. any Ideas?
-
I think the heater may be a bit underpowered for that size of bed.
How much did you reduce gain by? What values were used?
-
@Phaedrux The gain is at .168, the dead time I lowered to 1.5. about to run a print to see if it will hold temp.
-
750W heater are commonly used on Voron with bed size of 350x350. I think 1100x1100 is too much for this poor heater...too much surface that exchange heat with cool air. If you print abs then an enclosed chamber is a must, more with that size of print area. Probably you need 3 or 4 of this 750W heater to reach 110°C in a reasonable time and mantain it during printing.
-
I agree that you are underpowered. I use a 1600W heater for my 450mmx450mmx8mm Al plate with insulation and thermal breaks.
I would check to make sure that you are getting the power you expect. Make sure you are running the correct voltage for the heater as well.
-
@MikeS The Bed was holding heat fine until we had a power surge in the building, had to replace the wire to the bed. The entire printer is in a popup canopy with walls to act as the enclosure, but for example, it reached 110C, has been printing for about 14 minutes now and is already dropped to 100C
-
@hamel 750W was a guess, I didn't build this printer the person who built it has left the company and didn't leave any specs. after more research there are similar ones on alibaba that are around 2000W but they run on 220V. I'm working on finding the receipts to find out what it is.
-
@Tpmoses said in Bed heater tuning questions:
I'm working on finding the receipts to find out what it is.
That would be the best bet. The wattage could be pretty much anything and you can't tell by looking at it.
If you're familiar with Ohms law you could measure the resistance of the heater and then figure out the current and wattage.
Can you post some photos of the bed and heater so we can get an idea of what you're dealing with? Also the SSR and wiring.
You might be able to use bang bang instead of PID tuning it, but you might still run into the problem of it not heating fast enough and causing a heater error.
Adding a thermistor to the bed plate itself might be the easiest thing to do since it will give the PID algorithm some better data to tune with.
-
@Phaedrux I will as soon as I can, Bed is to hot to take it apart. Wiring wise there is not much to show, As it stands, Power comes from the wall. Ground goes to common. Neutral runs through the SSD Hot wire is connected to the bed through a DIN Block, So the only things between 120V power and the heater is the SSD and one DIN block. The Guy who built it had both the bed heater and the extruder heater as well as some powers supplies for the board and Z driver all on one 120V in. We had a power surge that toasted a length of wire to the bed, I had to rewired it also adding a ground to the bed. (kept getting shocked) I then moved bed power to the 120V in that ran the X and Y power supplies. Printed fine.
The bed started to have issues holding temp on Monday, Seemed that it was not getting enough source power, so I ran a separate 120V drop and put it in its current config.
There is an integrated thermistor in the heat mat itself.
I've never used Bang Bang mode before, I'm not as worried about the slow warm up as I am the temp starts dropping the second the printer does anything but sit still.
