Mini Kossel - WORKING! (changed from Kill Me Now)
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On to next topic, extruder calibration…
I read somewhere that if you extrude 10mm of filament, you should get 10mm of filament. So I have made the necessary tweaks to make sure xxmm of filament is xxmm of filament that is extruded from the bowden tube. The article was not clear if they were referring to xxmm of filament out the other side of the extruder (bowden tube) or out of the hotend. They are 2 completely different things.
10mm of filament @ 40mm is too fast for the hotend to extrude and the filament jams / or stops moving.
The default settings did not seem to extrude enough filament in testing. The new settings to extrude 10mm of filament out the bowden tube seem very large.
Here they are.
Default
M92 X100 Y100 Z100 ; Set axis steps/mm M92 E98:98:98:98:98:98 ; Set extruder steps per mm explicitly for all the extruders - 6 for Duet085+Dt4 test (663)Modified
M92 X100 Y100 Z100 E150:149:151:200:200:200:200I have 3 extruders all are of the same type.
Manufacturer's settings taken from Marlin for the extruder are:
configuration.hDEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT = 150 DEFAULT_MAX_FEEDRATE = 200 DEFAULT_MAX_ACCELERATION = 9000 DEFAULT_RETRACT_ACCELERATION = 3000configuration_adv.h
MANUAL_FEEDRATE = 60 -
HI Eddie
You are right, when calibrating your extruder steps you want to get to the point that commanding 10mm causes the extruder to push 10mm of filament through. You are measuring filament in not out!
Generally I start with 20 or 30mm to get in the right ball park and the fine tune at 50 and then 100mm. that way if you are 0.5mm out at the end, you are 0.5% in error which is small enough in my experience.
Depending on the type of extruder, espcially the gearing and hobbing diameter you can get widely different steps/mm for extruders. ~650 is what we use on the RepRapPro style geared extruders, ~420 on a Titan…. it varies.
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Whilst this is absolutely the way it should happen, its worth being aware that a fair number of us especially those with titan extruders have found, and the reason is still unknown, that we need to use far fewer steps/mm than we ought to. What I'm basically saying is that just because you push in 10mm of filament when 10mm are requested doesn't mean the objects you print will have optimal extrusion. Maybe its discrepancy in nozzle size or something like that.
The 10mm in for 10mm commanded is a good starting point. What I'd do after that is print an object which can show you both under extrusion and over extrusion. I designed such an object http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1619976 the idea is you print two cubes, one with infill 15% the other 95%. As you print it you watch to see if the 15% one has stringy infill, or the 95% one has no tiny gaps between the infill lines. Use the flow rate modifier (or filament modifier) on paneldue to adjust up or down (or you can use M92 Exxx) to find the optimum between these two points. Don't start looking until layer 6 or so, as up until that point its heavily dependant on whether your first layer is squashed down or not. This fine tunes your extrusion.
In reality with time, you can tell just by looking at an object printing whether it needs +1% or -1% etc… but it takes a little while to tune into that. I sometimes go -1% flow during the first few layers and then back up to normal after that to compensate for first layer squash.
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DjD, having followed Ian's long thread on this I don't disagree that extrusion modifications is needed in some cases. I think that this modification should be done once the steps/mm is set right, by setting the flow rate modifier rather than messing with the steps/mm however both have the same ultimate effect
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I'm with Tony on this one. Once set to extrude the right amount of filament, the steps/mm should be constant and therefore treated as one. There are just too many other variables to throw another one into the pot. One thing I managed to glean from all my testing was that where an object being printed appears to exhibit signs of over extrusion, it isn't because the steps per mm are incorrect but for some other reason. So, IMO the best way to compensate for that is through the use of extrusion multiplier as this can easily be changed from print to print or even "on the fly" whereas changing steps per mm is more of a global setting and less easy to do. Ultimately of course, both will achieve the same result.
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P.S. Eddie I am looking forward to the day you say we can change the name of this thread to something more positive!
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Thank you all for the support.
Last night I did a test print of the popular 3dbenchy boat. At least it printed without the head crashing into the bed for the first time. The new problem is definitely filament extrusion.
- The print job also stopped in the middle, like it was finished, head homed and all, but it was only about 50% complete.
MY Slic3r is setup to use the colormixing from the Repetier firmware, it has some M codes that are in the startup of every file to set the color. These are reported as errors in Reprap firmware.
The codes are -
; Cyan Extruder0
M163 S0 P1
M163 S1 P0
M163 S2 P0
M164 S0-
How do I change extruders (colors)?
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Sending a print job starts immediately, it does not wait for the hotend to reach proper temperature.
I think it only waits for the bed to reach temp.
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@ Eddie. In conjunction with Tony, I've been working on a document for eventual inclusion in the Wiki and/or a blog. It's a bit long and detailed and still only a draft but it'll explain what you need to do with regard to settings for the Diamond hot end. If you PM me with an email address, I'll send you a reply with the document attached.
Ian
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Here are some pictures -
Benchy Test Print -
My Kossel -
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DC42, here are some pictures of the IR probe, it seems to me there might be a better place/angle to mount it? Yes, I know you urge to mount with the electronics facing away from the hotend but I think in this case it is OK due to the angle of the head. I believe the tilt is caused by the rods colliding with the mounts on the shroud. I have a new one printed to test tonight that has less surface area for the rods to hit.
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for some reason the pictures are being rotated..
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Hi Eddie,
1. Your print may have stopped in the middle because you uploaded it to the Duet before slic3r had finished writing it, so you uploaded an incomplete file, Check whether the file size on SD card is the same as on your PC.
2. To set the colour mixing, see M567 and M568 in the gcode wiki at http://reprap.org/wiki/G-code.
3. If it starts printing before the hot end has finished heating up, that usually means that you didn't have a tool selected before you started heating.
HTH David
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HI!
1. I will redo the slice and try again.
2. M567 .. Even though I have one hotend but 3 extruders, I have 3 tools defined. M567 needs to be set for all 3 tools? meaning there will be 3 m567 lines? Why would one want to enable mixing on some extruders and not others? Perhaps if someone wants to allocate one extruder for support material?Can someone share with me some M567 commands for the 16 colors? I would also be happy with M567 commands that would test each extruder (CMY in my case)
3. The last command in my config.h file is t0
It seems like it ignores the M109 command which is included in the sliced gcode file.
Are you sayingM109 S208 ; wait for temperature to be reachedshould read
M109 S208 T0 ; wait for temperature to be reached ```? Have new shroud with smaller surface area, might test tonight. Still have extruding issue, too much extruding, causes backup and grinding, then retraction hits, sometimes it is grabbed again after the grinding occurs and sometimes not. When hotend moves around slowly the extruding seems ok, but when moving quickly, it seems to feed too much. -
Update:
I am printing the calibration cubes. At first I was having trouble even printing the base, but I issued a T1 to change to a different extruder and it is printing beautifully!! Something with Extruder0 is causing binding, possibly the throat. Will check it out later just so happy to see something printing.
Pulling 10amps with hotend and hotbed and motors and fans and etc… wires are warm to hot, don't want to run it too long.
It looks like extrustion is set perfectly (on extruder2)
happy dance
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Update:
Pulling 10amps with hotend and hotbed and motors and fans and etc… wires are warm to hot, don't want to run it too long.I presume you mean the wires between the PSU and the Duet. What gauge wires are you using?
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HI!
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2. M567 .. Even though I have one hotend but 3 extruders, I have 3 tools defined. M567 needs to be set for all 3 tools? meaning there will be 3 m567 lines? Why would one want to enable mixing on some extruders and not others? Perhaps if someone wants to allocate one extruder for support material?Can someone share with me some M567 commands for the 16 colors? I would also be happy with M567 commands that would test each extruder (CMY in my case)
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Read back a few posts - I've offered once but won't do it again
Ian
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I was successfully printing with 2 of the 3 colors. All my diamond hotend nozzles are knock-offs and have one problem or another.
Tired of this, finally ordered an official diamond hotend nozzle. It will be a couple of weeks before it arrives.Does anyone else out there have a diamond hotend? Do you use the V6 heatsinks/throats? I find the previous version of the heatsinks and throats work better and the V6 one's. Anyone else agree?
Has anyone with a diamond hotend used it to print with ABS?
Is there a reprap firmware color mixing wiki somewhere I can look at to become familiar with it?
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You can lead a horse to water…............
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Eddie, deckingman (Ian) is the resident expert on this. We are planning on doing a blog post/wiki about it but I have had a couple of other things get it the way. In the mean time he has offered to send you a document with loads of info….
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Update: – 5 months later --
Wow, hard to believe it has been 5 months since I started this post. The printer was getting to me to I sat it aside to work on other projects. Completing those projects I took another look at the Mini Kossel. Good move...
First, Deckingman, I will send you a PM re- color mixing extruder document. I totally missed the message, just saw it now.
I moved to yet another Diamond Hotend effector / carriage. It moves the connecting rods back down to the bottom near the print head which seems to have better control. While doing this, it was discovered that one of the carbon fibre rods were stripped, causing the tilt, bad calibrations, frustrations... Using metal rods now, everything works so much better!!! Stripped rods, could not tell because of the heatshrink tube covering the ballend and rod.
While the printer was in the corner taking a timeout, I took a closer look at the filament; it turns out despite ordering PLA, they sent ABS Cyan... Mixing PLA and ABS, no wonder Cyan kept jamming. AARGh. Fixed.
Over the months, cleaning boxes, organizing stuff, I find 5 china diamond hotends.. So many failed attempts; what if I ordered an official diamond hotend for a change?? Ordered one. Official Diamond Hotend is roughly 40% SMALLER than the China clones... It also does not have a screw to hold the heater (or thermistor) in place. Ok.
Did not like where the filament spools hung (putting weight on the upper frame) so I moved them to the sides and put the extruders up top.. Got new stepper motors for extruders and made spinners to help feed filement through the tube. Sore fingers after feeding 3 tubes and turning little tiny wheel. Yeah, could have used software to extrude..
Filament jamming before entering nozzle. GRRR this one took me a couple weeks to figure out, many different throats / heat breaks, despite the answers being written in clear text, finally settled on pass-thru throats that pass the tubing all the way to the nozzle. Also had clogging because the tube was not fitting all the way into the nozzle. Eventually I fingered it out, unclogged everything one last time (you need to keep all filament inlet holes filled and pressured - so frustrating.
FINALLY!! The head and effector track level across the bed! Upgraded the firmware to 1.18b3, so many changes, lost in the release notes, but I was able to print a 3dbenchy successfully in 1 of each of the 3 colors. The results were not the same! Different extrusion amounts it seems.
Now I am re-working the IR probe mount, added a servo motor to the effector also.. prototype is printing now; takes about 6 hours to print - might just carry on without it, dont want to mess with removing the filament and reseeding the head again. Using official head, maybe use a China one and have it on standby..
I used the PanelDue for 90% of all this tuning, heating, moving, probing, extruding, switching between tools/extruders, it was an invaluable tool, but it still needs some development to make it more of an extension of the Duet(Wifi) board.
Is it time to change the topic of this post?
