Horrible print quality since upgrading

totalitarian

Hi,

I have recently upgraded my CR-10 to a duet wifi and flex3drive extruder. Not sure why but those 2 upgrades are ruined print quality for me. See attached photos
It seems a sort of cyclic pattern.
Any idea what would be causing this?

It there anyway to set the extruder microstepping to 1/8? I tried changing it in the config but my steps per mm didn't need to chagning so I suspect 1/8 stepping is not a valid mode?

I've also included my config below

[c]; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 1.17 to 1.19)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool on Sat Oct 28 2017 00:02:03 GMT+0200 (Mitteleuropäische Sommerzeit)

; General preferences
M111 S0 ; Debugging off
G21 ; Work in millimetres
G90 ; Send absolute coordinates…
M83 ; ...but relative extruder moves
M555 P2 ; Set firmware compatibility to look like Marlin
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1 ; Set axis minima
M208 X300 Y300 Z400 S0 ; Set axis maxima

; Endstops
M574 X1 Y1 Z1 S1 ; Define active high microswitches
;M558 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 H5 F120 T12000 ; Set Z probe type to switch, the axes for which it is used and the probe + travel speeds
;G31 P600 X0 Y0 Z2.5 ; Set Z probe trigger value, offset and trigger height
G31 X0 Y0 Z0.0 P100
M557 X50:250 Y50:250 S50 ; Define mesh grid

; Drives
M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 goes backwards
M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 goes backwards
M569 P2 S1 ; Drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S0 ; Drive 3 goes backwards
M92 X80 Y80 Z400 E4240 ; Set steps per mm
M350 E16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M566 X300 Y300 Z24 E0.1 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X30000 Y30000 Z600 E3000 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500 Y500 Z100 E50 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X700 Y700 Z600 E200 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

; Heaters
M143 S265 ; Set maximum heater temperature to 265C
M305 P0 T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8 R4700 ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 0
M305 P1 T100000 B4138 C0 R4700 ; Set thermistor + ADC parameters for heater 1

; Tools
M563 P0 D0 H1 F1; Define tool 0
G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0 ; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Network
M550 PDuetWifi.lan.local ; Set machine name
M552 S1 ; Enable network
M586 P0 S1 ; Enable HTTP
M586 P1 S1 ; Enable FTP
M586 P2 S0 ; Disable Telnet

; Fans
M106 P0 S1 I0 F500 H1 T50 ; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned on
M106 P1 S0 I0 F30 H-1 ; Set fan 1 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off - have 2 Blowers parallel
M106 P2 S0.5 I0 F30 H-1 ; Set fan 2 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off - have 2 Case Fans parallel

; Custom settings
M912 P0 S-13 ; calibrate MCU Temp

; Miscellaneous
M501 ; with PID Tune data
T0 ; Select first tool

;Probe
;M558 P5 I0 R0.4 F300 X0 Y0 Z0
M558 P1 I0 R0.4 F300 X0 Y0 Z0
;G31 X0 Y0 Z-0.0 P100
G31 X0 Y0 Z-0.2 P1[/c]

Dougal1957

looks to me that your accels maybe the issue here your Jerk values seem particularly low

mine (I am useing a Nimble which is similar in operation to the Flex Drive) is below

M566 X900 Y900 Z900 E40 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X18000 Y18000 Z18000 E3600 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E120 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E500 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent

Worth a try as you can send the commands via the console and adjust to see the effect even mid print?

Doug

dc42

If you use M350 to change microstepping after you have set the steps/mm with M92, the steps/mm will be adjusted automatically for you. Run M350 and M92 without parameters to check what the current microstepping and steps/mm are set to.

I am not familiar with the Flex3drive, but I spotted few things:

1. You have the motor current set very low. This suggests to me that you may have it set too low, or you may be using a high-inductance motor that can't reach the required speeds with the supply voltage you are using. See https://duet3d.com/wiki/Choosing_stepper_motors#How_to_work_out_the_power_supply_voltage_you_need.

2. You have quite a high maximum extruder speed (3000mm/min) in your M203 command. This may not be achievable.

3. You have very low extruder acceleration and extruder jerk set. These may adversely affect the quality when printing curves.

DjDemonD

What he said.

You an go higher with acceleration and much higher with jerk for extruder. Try 500ma current.

totalitarian

They were the recommended settings by Jason who makes the flex3drive. Apparently lower current / jerk is better….

totalitarian

Just for reference here is a 80mm box, you can clearly the diagonal lines. They are like little bulges (sorry - so hard to capture on camera clearly) It's a cyclic pattern.

totalitarian

DjDemonD, you sent me these settings on another forum, let me give them a try…

[c]M92 E4130 ; 1.8 degree motor on 1/16th microstepping

M906 X1100 Y1100 Z1100 E800 I60 ;e motor current 800 (though I am lead to believe you can get away with as little as 500ma depending on the motor, lower is better I'm told)

M201 X3000 Y3000 Z200 E200 ;low E -accel to achieve faster reverses, go lower if your having stalling issues rather than upping the current

M203 X15000 Y15000 Z15000 E3600 ;max speed

M572 D0 S0 ; pressure advance off, although it might help to use a tiny bit like 0.025 to account for the twist in the drive cable but this is splitting hairs

M566 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E100 ;low jerk value, higher than with nimble which I use 40 for, but then flex3drive is geared higher and therefore has needs less torque to start[/c]

totalitarian

OK upped my acceleration and jerk to these below. Aside from the printer being a little noiser, not difference in quality

[c]M566 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E100 ;low jerk value,
M203 X30000 Y30000 Z600 E3000 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500 Y500 Z100 E200 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M572 D0 S0 ;pressure advance off
M906 X800 Y800 Z600 E800 I60 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent[/c]

dc42 is the duet capable of 1/8 stepping?

deckingman

@totalitarian:

…...............................
dc42 is the duet capable of 1/8 stepping?

The gcode Wiki is always a good resource for these sorts of question - see here https://duet3d.com/wiki/G-code#M350:_Set_microstepping_mode

Shen

I'm also had a similar issue. I think it's caused by the non-linearity of micro steps. From my calculation, the pattern is repeating every full step of the stepper motor. I also tried a 0.9 degree stepper motor instead of the 1.8 degree motor I was using, the length of the pattern halved. Stepper motor current does affect micro stepping linearity, you need to find the optimal value. You may also try replacing the extruder motor which worked for me.

totalitarian

@deckingman:

@totalitarian:

…...............................
dc42 is the duet capable of 1/8 stepping?

The gcode Wiki is always a good resource for these sorts of question - see here https://duet3d.com/wiki/G-code#M350:_Set_microstepping_mode

Ah so that's why even though I set 1/8 my steps didn't need to change. Thanks. Running a new test at 1/8….

totalitarian

@Shen:

I'm also had a similar issue. I think it's caused by the non-linearity of micro steps. From my calculation, the pattern is repeating every full step of the stepper motor. I also tried a 0.9 degree stepper motor instead of the 1.8 degree motor I was using, the length of the pattern halved. Stepper motor current does affect micro stepping linearity, you need to find the optimal value. You may also try replacing the extruder motor which worked for me.

So are you saying it was the motor in the end that was causing the issue? Was it a failing motor?

totalitarian

Just noticed this in the wiki

If using a highly-geared extruder (for example, an extruder that uses a flexible drive cable to transmit the torque from the motor to a worm reduction gear), use a short low-inductance 1.8deg/step motor to drive it.

I'm not too electrically minded, but this is my motor, is it suitable?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01J3IKKHW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Size: 42*40mm
Weight: 279g
Voltage: 3.3V
Current: 1.5A
Power: 35W
Step Angle: 1.8°
Phases: 2
Resistance: 5.2Ω±10%
Inductance: 9.0mH±20%
Holding Torque: 4.0Kg ·cm
Detent Torque: 150g·cm
Insulation resistance: 500VDC 100MΩ
Insulation class: B
Rotor inertia: 57g ·cm²

dc42

No. That motor is long and it has high inductance.

Shen

@totalitarian:

@Shen:

I'm also had a similar issue. I think it's caused by the non-linearity of micro steps. From my calculation, the pattern is repeating every full step of the stepper motor. I also tried a 0.9 degree stepper motor instead of the 1.8 degree motor I was using, the length of the pattern halved. Stepper motor current does affect micro stepping linearity, you need to find the optimal value. You may also try replacing the extruder motor which worked for me.

So are you saying it was the motor in the end that was causing the issue? Was it a failing motor?

It's not failing, but it might not be the best option for your extruder.

totalitarian

@dc42:

No. That motor is long and it has high inductance.

Could you suggest a specific stepper?

totalitarian

BTW, I reduced the steps to 1/8 but it made no difference. The diagonal lines had the same frequency

bot

Is there any way to revert to the original extruder setup, so that you can isolate the variables?

totalitarian

Sure, i'll refit my old titan this evening and do some more test prints

DjDemonD

This type of motor works for me for both flex3drive/nimble and titan:
https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/hybrid-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolar-18deg-13ncm-184ozin-1a-35v-42x42x20mm-4-wires-17hs08-1004s.html

Its lightweight, and has enough torque to drive a geared extruder.

Long/large motors are needed when you need to achieve high holding torque, or to move a large heavy load such as a large 3 leadscrew bed etc.. for turning an extruder with gearing like 40:1 or 30:1 requires almost no torque at all. What more important is can you spin it up quickly and reverse it quickly.

The image with the cube above, does show what appears to be pulsing of the extruder, maybe this is the effect of the drive cable tightening and loosening as it turns. Grease it up and look at the path it takes to see if you can keep it from having to go around a tight radius.

totalitarian

Yeah i'm not convinced I have the optimal route for the cable worked out yet. I've also noticed that the cable doesn't spin concentrically at the motor end. Not sure if this makes a difference or not or how I would fix this

https://photos.app.goo.gl/lTdTj8taKpn6q29Z2

The only other stepper I have kicking around is the one recommend for the titan

https://e3d-online.com/nema17-slimline-stepper-motor

but this is 0.9deg.

T3P3Tony

I agree with bot, if its possible to split the issue to isolate the issue(s). I know people on this forum have had good success with flexible drives but minimising the number of variables changing at once can help to find the problem quicker.

totalitarian

OK I switched back to my E3D titian extruder. Not good news. Constantly skipping and then my x axis started stuttering too!

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MGCq8oO2NUPvVVIT2

Here is my config for the titian

[[language]]
; Drives
M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 goes backwards
M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 goes backwards
M569 P2 S1 ; Drive 2 goes forwards
M569 P3 S1 ; Drive 3 goes forwards
M92 X80 Y80 Z400 E800 ; Set steps per mm
M350 E16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M350 X16 Y16 Z16 I1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
M566 X300 Y300 Z24 E300 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X30000 Y30000 Z600 E300 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500 Y500 Z100 E250 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X800 Y800 Z800 E1100 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S30 ; Set idle timeout

And here is my M112

M122

[[language]]
=== Diagnostics ===
Used output buffers: 3 of 32 (8 max)
=== Platform ===
RepRapFirmware for Duet WiFi version 1.19 running on Duet WiFi 1.0
Board ID: 08DGM-95BNL-MGPSJ-6J1F8-3SD6T-1KZ3W
Static ram used: 21176
Dynamic ram used: 95960
Recycled dynamic ram: 1648
Stack ram used: 1304 current, 4840 maximum
Never used ram: 7448
Last reset 00:02:17 ago, cause: software
Last software reset reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 3232 bytes (slot 2)
Software reset code 0x0003, HFSR 0x00000000, CFSR 0x00000000, ICSR 0x00400000, BFAR 0xe000ed38, SP 0xffffffff
Error status: 0
Free file entries: 10
SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
SD card longest block write time: 0.0ms
MCU temperature: min 18.9, current 19.4, max 20.6
Supply voltage: min 11.5, current 11.5, max 11.7, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0
Driver 0: stalled standstill
Driver 1: standstill
Driver 2: stalled standstill
Driver 3: stalled standstill
Driver 4: standstill
Date/time: 2017-11-10 23:38:33
Slowest main loop (seconds): 0.004425; fastest: 0.000034
=== Move ===
MaxReps: 0, StepErrors: 0, FreeDm: 240, MinFreeDm 240, MaxWait: 0ms, Underruns: 0, 0
Scheduled moves: 0, completed moves: 0
Bed compensation in use: none
Bed probe heights: 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
=== Heat ===
Bed heater = 0, chamber heater = -1
Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.0
=== GCodes ===
Segments left: 0
Stack records: 2 allocated, 0 in use
Movement lock held by null
http is idle in state(s) 0
telnet is idle in state(s) 0
file is idle in state(s) 0
serial is idle in state(s) 0
aux is idle in state(s) 0
daemon is idle in state(s) 0
queue is idle in state(s) 0
autopause is idle in state(s) 0
Code queue is empty.
Network state is running
WiFi module is connected to access point 
WiFi firmware version 1.19
WiFi MAC address 2c:3a:e8:0b:07:75
WiFi Vcc 3.02, reset reason Turned on by main processor
WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 38904
WiFi IP address 192.168.1.56
WiFi signal strength -37dBm
HTTP sessions: 2 of 8
Socket states: 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Responder states: HTTP(1) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0)

dc42

Was that M122 report produced after a print, or before? The power supply voltage is a little low, and if it drops further when the heaters are on then you could be getting motor driver dropout due to the voltage going too low. OTOH if that M122 report is the first one you did after a print, then the minimum voltage is OK and there are no under-voltage events reported.

totalitarian

It was after, i'll boost it up a little