Combine Smart effector with a Titan Aero



  • Is it possible to combine the Smart effector with a E3D Titan Aero?



  • @Nuvag:

    Is it possible to combine the Smart effector with a E3D Titan Aero?

    No, the Aero is a direct-drive Extruder Hotend Combo, while it would be possible to use the normal Titan.



  • Why not? I'm using SeeMeCNC's Rostock Max effector platform with a Titan Aero and it's working good.
    But I had too bump down acceleration and jerk a lot because of the higher mass moving arround.

    You will need a proper mount for it.
    Or you could try the Zesty Nimble.



  • I aware its a direct-drive extruder, in fact thats why i consider buying one πŸ™‚ Im already using a titan extruder but am not happy with the long bowden tube.

    A remote direct-drive extruder is an option, but could not make my mind up on which one is the best for my printer.
    Is there a mounting option for the flexion or zesty nimble extruder?

    How bad is the effect on print time from reduced jerk and accelleration? Long retractions (about 6mm on my machine) can increase print time, too.



  • That's very specific to each machine, maybe yours is more rigid than mine and you don't need to lower those values a lot.
    I never print faster than 70mm/s and with travel moves of 200mm/s.

    In my case a print that would normally take 1h, now takes 20% more time. If I increase accel/jerk the prints came out with a ghosting/ripple effect. Still playing with those values though.

    Maybe one of these day I'll try out this motor, it's a bit lighter than the slimline one from E3D.
    https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/hybrid-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolar-09deg-11ncm-156ozin-12a-36v-42x42x21mm-4-wires-17hm08-1204s.html



  • Forgot to mention, my retracts are now set to 0.5mm

    If you already have a Titan, then buying a Titan Aero upgrade kit will cost you half the price. Get yourself a pre-xmas gift and buy it πŸ˜›

    Beware, the crystal clear fan that comes with it is super loud. I've recently replaced it with an hydraulic bearing fan from Robotdigg and you can't hear it.



  • Yeah upgrading to aero would be easy, but if it cant be mounted it would be of no use πŸ˜‰

    Another possibilty could be to use the standard titan and mount it on top of the pcb effector using the 3 additional mounting holes on the effector and a custom designed mount. Could this work?


  • administrators

    We are taking to E3D about a lightweight version of the Aero that would be suitable for a delta printer with a smart effector. It's likely to take some time though.



  • What is the problem that needs to be overcome? Is it the weight of the extruder constantly applying force on the straingauge? Or is the PCB not stiff enough for the extra weight (hmm, little bit of the same thing I guuess…)



  • @dc42:

    We are taking to E3D about a lightweight version of the Aero that would be suitable for a delta printer with a smart effector. It's likely to take some time though.

    Sign me up on waiting list πŸ™‚



  • What about the Nimble? I already use a couple of them in my CoreXY Printers, 27 grams weight, but still a direct extruder (with a flexcable). A bunch of adaptors are readily available (including for the Smart Effector).
    I am currently building a Delta (Kossel XL) with the Smart Effector and will definately use the Nimble too on this one…



  • Thought about the Nimble the last days, but im not still fully convinced it would live up to my requirements.
    Main point is the ridiculus low accelleration, jerk and maximum speed settings compared to what im currently using.
    Additionally i couldnt find any information yet about backslash due to flexing steel shaft.

    Consider printing somthing with a lot of retractions i.e. https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:91831 print time could easily double when max jerk/accel/speed has to be set at much lower values.

    Currently im using 6000mm/min speed, 9000mm/s^2 acceleration and 900 mm/min jerk on my extruder which is 5-10 time higher than the value i found for the zesty nimble.


  • administrators

    Bear in mind that if you use a remote direct drive extruder such as the Nimble or Flex3drive, you will need less retraction than with a Bowden system.



  • David, the moment something like an Aero is available to work with a smart effector, I'd order one. Hope something does happen on that front.



  • I made some tests with https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:91831 at 50% scale
    I removed the filament and let it print to see how long each setup takes (im still on 1.18 so M37 simulation mode is not available)
    Retraction off: 5:40 min
    E3D Titan: 20:41
    Nimble Standard: 33:22 as described in http://zestytechnology.readthedocs.io/en/latest/nimble_single/tuning.html
    Nimble Jerk x2: 32:16 (twice the recommended jerk)
    Nimble accel x2: 25:30 (twice the recommended acceleration)

    E3D Titan setup was with 6mm retraction, Nimble setup was with 1.2mm retraction
    The Nimble setup is much slower, despite shorter retraction.

    I hoped a direct extruder would reduce print time on retraction heavy models, instead the Nimble would increase it 😐
    Would be interesting to know if someone has experience using much higher acceleration on a Kossel with 24V, as the main impediment to using higher accelleration seems to be the 'reaction time' of the extruder motor which should be much better on 24V. Maybe a much lower inductance and rotor mass motor would be preferable to reach higher accelleration?

    Which length of cable should i choose to replace my 60cm bowden tube? They offer 65, 75 and 95cm



  • Updated to 1.20 today and found the M37 P"file,.gcode" simulation ignores accelleration/jerk settings from the gcode file, so not as usefull for these kind of tests 😐



  • Hi Nuvag,
    The settings given for the Nimble are the starting settings. It is up to the user to the tweak and optimise. You can see the settings as the lowest common denominator. It depends too much on what stepper you use, what voltage you use, what kind of printer etc.

    But you have renewed my urge to do a tuning session and see how far I can push the Nimble and the small stepper I want to use with it. It is busy at the moment, but it is worthwhile doing it. I will report back.


  • administrators

    @Nuvag:

    Updated to 1.20 today and found the M37 P"file,.gcode" simulation ignores accelleration/jerk settings from the gcode file, so not as usefull for these kind of tests 😐

    It's not usual to use M201, M203 or M566 commands in a GCode file, so M37 does not process those. It does process M204 commands.



  • Yeah you are probably right about its unusual to use these, but i found it quite handy.
    When printing flexible materials (where retraction cannot be used with a bowden) its beneficial to use much higher accelleration and jerk to keep the pressure level as constant as possible and reduce oozing on travel moves (as they are faster). Overall this produces nicer parts, even when ringing artifacts could be worse.
    Additionally with Simplify3D its realy nice to use multiple processes to print faster on non critical parts and slower where fine details matter.

    Just ordered a smart pcb effector and a zesty nimble. Im not quite sure if i will be happy with the nimble, but it looks like its currently the best solution.


Locked
 

Looks like your connection to Duet3D was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.