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    Solved Hot end: Auto tune of heater 1 failed

    Tuning and tweaking
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    • geekness
      geekness last edited by

      Hi, I've just finished my 3d printer build and am trying to complete a successful hot end auto tune, but I keep getting the same error.
      Im a bit of a newb at this, so im sure im doing something wrong. Hopefully somebody can help.

      Here is my gcode and settings from tonight.

      10:02:52 PMWarning: Auto tune of heater 1 failed due to bad curve fit (A=3655.1, C=227.0, D=4.6)
      9:59:24 PMAuto tune phase 3, peak temperature was 296.2
      9:59:12 PMAuto tune phase 2, heater off
      9:58:47 PMAuto tune phase 1, heater on
      9:58:41 PMM303 H1 S240
      Auto tuning heater 1 using target temperature 240.0°C and PWM 1.00 - do not leave printer unattended
      9:42:06 PMWarning: Auto tune of heater 1 failed due to bad curve fit (A=3822.9, C=222.0, D=4.3)
      9:38:43 PMAuto tune phase 3, peak temperature was 299.0
      9:38:30 PMAuto tune phase 2, heater off
      9:38:06 PMAuto tune phase 1, heater on
      9:38:00 PMM303 H1 S240
      Auto tuning heater 1 using target temperature 240.0°C and PWM 1.00 - do not leave printer unattended
      9:35:27 PMG28 X
      9:24:46 PMM106 S0.3
      9:22:27 PMM120
      G91
      G1 Z25 F6000
      M121
      9:22:18 PMM120
      G91
      G1 Z25 F6000
      M121
      9:18:01 PMM307 H1
      Heater 1 model: gain 340.0, time constant 140.0, dead time 5.5, max PWM 1.00, calibration voltage 0.0, mode PID, inverted no, frequency default
      Computed PID parameters for setpoint change: P13.4, I0.482, D51.4
      Computed PID parameters for load change: P13.4
      9:17:01 PMM303
      Heater 1 tuning failed
      9:16:20 PMWarning: Auto tune of heater 1 failed due to bad curve fit (A=3411.4, C=198.1, D=4.2)
      9:16:01 PMM303
      Heater 1 is being tuned, phase 4 of 4
      9:14:03 PMM303
      Heater 1 is being tuned, phase 4 of 4
      9:13:17 PMAuto tune phase 3, peak temperature was 294.9
      9:13:05 PMAuto tune phase 2, heater off
      9:12:42 PMAuto tune phase 1, heater on
      9:12:36 PMM303 H1 S240
      Auto tuning heater 1 using target temperature 240.0°C and PWM 1.00 - do not leave printer unattended

      Firmware Name: RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet
      Firmware Electronics: Duet WiFi 1.02 or later
      Firmware Version: 2.02(RTOS) (2018-12-24b1)
      WiFi Server Version: 1.22
      Web Interface Version: 1.22.6


      Im using 24V, and an E3D PT100 sensor.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • DocTrucker
        DocTrucker last edited by DocTrucker

        What does your temp plot look like? Sharp spikes can indicate dodgy connection, failed sensor, or electrical noise.

        Sharp drops made mine fail.had tp replace a sensor, but it was a standard thermistor.

        Running 3 P3Steel with Duet 2. Duet 3 on the shelf looking for a suitable machine. One first generation Duet in a Logo/Turtle style robot!

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Phaedrux
          Phaedrux Moderator last edited by

          Is the heater cartridge and PT100 cartridge firmly secured in the heat block?
          Do you have a fan blowing on the heat block?

          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • dc42
            dc42 administrators last edited by

            The gain is way too high. Are you using a 12V heater cartridge with 24V power?

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • geekness
              geekness last edited by

              The temperature plot looks smooth. The only problem is that it doesn't stop heating until it reaches the maximum temp which is set to 280°

              Everything in my hot end feels secure, although come to think of it I haven't tightened it in its heated state.

              My cartridge is definitely 24V.

              Phaedrux 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Phaedrux
                Phaedrux Moderator @geekness last edited by

                @geekness said in Hot end: Auto tune of heater 1 failed:

                My cartridge is definitely 24V.

                Confirmed by measuring resistance?

                Assuming it's an E3D: https://wiki.e3d-online.com/E3D-v6_Assembly#Heater_Cartridge

                Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                geekness 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • geekness
                  geekness @Phaedrux last edited by

                  @phaedrux
                  Hmm, no-not tested.
                  I'll test it tonight when I get home. What kind of resistance should I be looking for each voltage cartridge?
                  What is the resistance value I should be getting for 12V vs 24V?
                  Im pretty sure its a 40W cartridge either way, but It should be easy enough to figure out

                  Phaedrux 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Phaedrux
                    Phaedrux Moderator @geekness last edited by

                    @geekness From the link:

                    Heater inserted into block.
                    If you have one, grab a multimeter and check the resistance of your heater cartridge against the table below. Expect your value to deviate a little from these, a difference of around plus or minus 5W is fine, however if yours is significantly off or you are concerned you have the wrong cartridge please get in touch.

                    P\V 12v 24v
                    40w (Red Leads) 3.6Ω 14.4Ω
                    25w (Blue Leads) 5.76Ω 23.04Ω
                    30w (Blue Leads) 4.8Ω 19.2Ω

                    Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                    geekness 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • geekness
                      geekness @Phaedrux last edited by

                      @phaedrux I came home tonight and checked my heater cartridge, and yes it is a 12V cartridge.
                      I swapped it out for a 12V cartridge then ran auto tune again, and voila, I now have a functioning hot end. Thanks.

                      dc42 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • dc42
                        dc42 administrators @geekness last edited by

                        @geekness, I assume you mean that you swapped it for a 24V cartridge. I'm glad you got it working.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                        geekness 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • geekness
                          geekness @dc42 last edited by

                          @dc42 haha, yes woops. Swapped it out for 24V. Thanks again

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • gruen
                            gruen last edited by

                            I have the same error.

                            Warning: Auto tune of heater 2 failed due to bad curve fit (A=1665.2, C=423.3, D=5.9)

                            I use the 65W High Temperature Heater Cartridges from E3D with PT1000.

                            What can I do?

                            deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • deckingman
                              deckingman @gruen last edited by

                              @gruen The A parameter is the gain and I believe that it is also a fair indication of the temperature that the heater could reach if running at full power. Aluminium melts at about 660 Deg C so your heater is dangerously over powered. Is it a 12V one running on 24V?

                              Ian
                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • gruen
                                gruen last edited by

                                I use the 24V from here:
                                https://e3d-online.com/high-temperature-heater-cartridges
                                with https://e3d-online.com/v6-plated-copper-heater-block a titan heat break and
                                https://e3d-online.com/plated-copper-nozzles-v6.

                                deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • deckingman
                                  deckingman @gruen last edited by

                                  @gruen That combination of a copper heat block which is much better at conducting heat than aluminium, plus a high temperature 65 Watt heater probably explains why you could potentially reach around 1,665 deg C and melt mild steel, let alone copper or aluminium. You need about a quarter of that heating power. 20 Watt would probably work but AFAIK the smallest E3D do is 30 watt. Try one of those.

                                  Ian
                                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                                  • gruen
                                    gruen last edited by

                                    I need 400°C for print with PEI. I don't think this work with 20 Watt. 😕

                                    deckingman 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • dc42
                                      dc42 administrators last edited by dc42

                                      The reason for the error is that the predicted maximum temperature is above 1500C. The solution is to use a less powerful heater, because the one you are using is way too powerful. 40W would be sufficient, probably even 30W.

                                      As a temporary workaround, you could use M143 to set the maximum permitted temperature to 1200C, which will cause the firmware to allow up to 1700C predicted maximum temperature. Then you can use M307 to set those A, C and D values. Then use another M143 command to set a more reasonable temperature limit.

                                      But I repeat, you should use a less powerful cartridge so that in the event of heater control failing, the risk of fire is reduced.

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • deckingman
                                        deckingman @gruen last edited by deckingman

                                        @gruen said in Hot end: Auto tune of heater 1 failed:

                                        I need 400°C for print with PEI. I don't think this work with 20 Watt. 😕

                                        65 watts is giving you the potential to reach 1665 deg C. So on that basis and assuming a linear relationship between heater power and hot end temperature, then 20Watts would you the potential to reach (1665/65*20 ) = 512 deg C. But as I said, you'll probably find that a 20 watt cartridge is hard to find so try a 30 Watt which would give you a maximum temperature in the order of 768 deg C using the above assumptions.

                                        Ian
                                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • gruen
                                          gruen last edited by

                                          With M143 workaround works the auto tune.

                                          After successfull auto tune does M500 only write:

                                          ; config-override.g file generated in response to M500
                                          
                                          ; Heater model parameters
                                          M307 H0 A C D S V B0
                                          M307 H1 A C D S V B0
                                          M307 H2 A C D S V B0
                                          M307 H3 A C D S V B0
                                          ; Workplace coordinates
                                          
                                          
                                          dc42 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • dc42
                                            dc42 administrators @gruen last edited by dc42

                                            M500 doesn't yet work when using Duet 3 with attached RPi. Put the M307 command with the values from tuning directly in config.g instead.

                                            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • gruen
                                              gruen last edited by

                                              I use the workaround and set with M143 the maximum permitted temperature to 1200°C. After another M143 H2 400 stays the Temperature Chart at 1200°C.
                                              Can I reset the upper limit?

                                              dc42 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • dc42
                                                dc42 administrators @gruen last edited by

                                                @gruen said in Hot end: Auto tune of heater 1 failed:

                                                I use the workaround and set with M143 the maximum permitted temperature to 1200°C. After another M143 H2 400 stays the Temperature Chart at 1200°C.
                                                Can I reset the upper limit?

                                                If you refresh DWC, does the upper limit do back down? I have a feeling that DWC rescales its temperature chart when the limit increases, but not when it decreases.

                                                Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                                Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                                http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • gruen
                                                  gruen last edited by

                                                  Oh, my error. M143 H2 S400 works. Thanks.

                                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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