Piezo20 probe and piezo kit now available
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I purchased to batches of 10 no-name 27mm discs on ebay from two different suppliers and tested about 17 of them. I also got 10 Murata discs from Farnell and tested only 5 of them as they had to have leads soldered on and this was a destructive learning curve.
The Murata did score on giving a decent output at temperatures at just over 100C while the no-name were really poor - see http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,635075,655510#msg-655510
Mike
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I've soldered wires to piezo transducers before. Apart from heat damage to the piezo, the other risk is that the silver coating gets sucked off the piezo. You need to make the joints as quickly as possible, using as little solder as possible. It's best to use solder that contains silver, which some but not all lead-free solders do.
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Thankfully as we are implementing it above the hotend, temperature is unimportant, I would not expect the piezo to be at more than 40 deg C (if that) in use. I am more interested to see which transducer has the right amount of flexibility versus signal. The optimum between the least flexible transducer with the highest signal is surely our best unit.
If we could get the same signal out of a smaller transducer this would make packaging the sensor (which Lykle is grappllng with right now) much easier, but I suspect the piezo-electric material is only capable of so much voltage for a given tap, and the more of it you have the more signal you get. Perhaps a 20mm unit would give the same output if the top of the clamp that bends it was 6-7mm diameter, instead of the 18mm pressing into (effectively due to the recess) a 25mm disc.
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Just to see how it goes, I plan to test one with the hotend mount I have, http://713maker.com/mounts.html
I think a drilled piezo will fit nicely in the existing mount, and I can trap some nylon washers around it as an insulator.
I need to figure out the max radius I can fit under the mount is, appears to be ~25mm diameter, and then figure out the spacing. Any advice is welcome while I wait on the board to be available again.
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Kraegar, Thats the same mount I have for mine and modified the top clamping mount. 27mm fits
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Awesome, Sakey, good to know. How's it working for you? Any otheer tips or considerations? Are you just compressing it?
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Guys I have a quick question for you. What do your Z homing file and config.g look like? I'm only used to using DC's probe so in my config.g I have a positive offset in G31 because the probe triggers before the nozzle touches the bed. Do you simply use a negative offset in G31 (because the probe triggers after the nozzle touches the bed)? If so, how do you determine the offset? Trial and error or a more scientific approach? I ask because if my sliding mount works, I'll need to do similar. Cheers
Ian -
Its been trial and error to be honest, but the theory I am using is that z=0 with the piezo probe being so precise should be the nozzle at exactly z=0, so I have been using +0.1 z offset, that being said I've just changed that to +0.07 as I couldn't get the print I'm doing right now to stick for love or money.
In theory with the piezo you might get away with no offset and print at exactly your first layer height, no thickness of a piece of paper nonsense.
With FSR's generally you needed a +ve offset equal to the compliance in the sensors/bed mounting/whatever.
Sorry if thats clear as mud.
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Hi DJ,
Er yeah - bit confused TBH. With a probe such as DC's, the trigger point is some way above the point where the nozzle touches the bed. That is to say if Z=0 is the point where the nozzle touches the bed but the probe triggers say 2mm before that, then I need a 2mm positive trigger height in my G31. So I'm thinking that with your Piezo sensor and my moving mount, the trigger point will be after the nozzle touches the bed so the trigger height would need to be negative. In your case it's only 0.1 or less but in my case, it's likely to be nearer 1mm. So, I guess my question really should be does G31 accept a negative offset value to "tell" the machine that Z=0 is below the point where the probe triggers? Or, should I use M208 to define the Z axis minimum as being something other than zero?
Is my mud any clearer than yours?
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Yes G31 accepts negative values, which is what you need to use for any sort of nozzle-contact probe.
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Yes G31 accepts negative values, which is what you need to use for any sort of nozzle-contact probe.
Thank you.
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Yes you can have a negative offset, but I am curious to find out if you will actually need one. If I set -0.1mm as my offset I'd be milling a line in my print bed.
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Yes you can have a negative offset, but I am curious to find out if you will actually need one. If I set -0.1mm as my offset I'd be milling a line in my print bed.
No actually you won't. It works kind of back to front to what one might expect. When it's positive, a larger value moves the nozzle closer to the bed because what you are telling the machine is that the distance from the trigger point to the nozzle tip is greater and to get from the trigger point to Z=0 it must move further. In your case, if you set a positive offset, you are telling the machine that it must move the nozzle closer to the bed after it sees the trigger point but in your case, the trigger point happens after the nozzle touches the bed so Z=0 is in the opposite direction.
Edit. Having re-read that, it seems clear as mud - just try it and see.
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Well I am trying it Ian. I've been printing with a positive offset and a piezo probe hotend for a few weeks now. I've just fitted Lykle's latest effector/probe combo, so all bets are off until I've had a bit of chance to test this version.
I know you're putting forth sound theory but my experience has been I need to use a positive offset (which I apply in my slic3r rather than in Duetwifi config).
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Sorry DJ, no offence meant. It sounds arse about face to have to do that but if it works for you, then fine. Maybe slic3r works the opposite way to Duet config? Dunno…...
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Well I am trying it Ian. I've been printing with a positive offset and a piezo probe hotend for a few weeks now. I've just fitted Lykle's latest effector/probe combo, so all bets are off until I've had a bit of chance to test this version.
I know you're putting forth sound theory but my experience has been I need to use a positive offset (which I apply in my slic3r rather than in Duetwifi config).
If you have to add a positive Z offset in your slicer, this indicates that you need a lower (I.e. more negative) trigger height in your G31 command.
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I think that is probably the Difference
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Sorry DJ, no offence meant. It sounds arse about face to have to do that but if it works for you, then fine. Maybe slic3r works the opposite way to Duet config? Dunno…...
None taken its clear the way the offset is presented differs from the firmware to the slic3r, I wasn't aware of that, but given cognitive biases I am likely to see it everywhere from now on.
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The value in the G31 Z parameter is the probe trigger height, not an offset.
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A little update for the delta brigade, Lykle's latest effector design with less flexible piezo works and seems fairly reliable, we are just tweaking the design to make assembly more straightforward. But I think we are getting closer to having a solid system.
Next steps:
-try a 20mm piezo to see if we can make a smaller overall unit.
-Make a version for i3 style printers (since they are the most popular design) I don't have one anymore so I will need some help with that.
-I have got a piezo sensor working now on Duet/RRF, Marlin/Ramps and now Re-Arm/Smoothie (in fact it works really well on Smoothie as setting < zprobe.debounce_ms 1> for z probe means I can probe at full speed). Is there anything like this on RRF David? This practically eliminates false triggers - I don't know how this works but it seems to work very well with this probe.
-See if there is a way to reduce the chance of wire-breaks on the piezo unit itself, the leads are very thin and desolder easily.
