Dual extruder, 1 hotend

deckingman · 25 Feb 2017, 21:25

Hi. Here is my blog. https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2017/01/. You'll find a post about using a mixing hot end such as the diamond hot end in the January archives. So tell me, is your hot end mixing one? i.e do you have two or more filaments going into a single nozzle simultaneously? Or do you have some other arrangement that allows one filament or the other but not both together?
Ian

cdl1701yahoo.com · 26 Feb 2017, 00:14

@deckingman:

Hi. Here is my blog. https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/2017/01/. You'll find a post about using a mixing hot end such as the diamond hot end in the January archives. So tell me, is your hot end mixing one? i.e do you have two or more filaments going into a single nozzle simultaneously? Or do you have some other arrangement that allows one filament or the other but not both together?
Ian

It is just a standard E3D V6. I have designed a mount that will let me quick swap out hotends and has the ability to switch between two filaments but cannot have both filaments running at the same time. All that it will have to do is retract the first filament 35mm and then push the second one in by that amount and so on. Maybe someday I will get to a mixing hotend like the diamond one.

dc42 · 26 Feb 2017, 07:16

So you have a switching hot end, not a mixing hot end. If you look again at the wiki page I linked to, you will see that a switching hot end uses a different tool configuration.

cdl1701yahoo.com · 2 Mar 2017, 01:32

That's correct dc42. I put this in my config.g

; Tools
M563 P0 D0:1 H1 ; Define tool 0
G10 P0 S0 R0 X0 Y0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0

cdl1701yahoo.com · 2 Mar 2017, 02:44

Here is a video of what it is doing. I went through the Simplify3D tutorial on setting up a print to use dual extruders so I think it is correct.

https://youtu.be/HElGNgCeMGk

kraegar · 2 Mar 2017, 03:06

I have a switching hotend, here's what I put in my config.g

M563 P0 D0 H1 F1 ; Define tool 0
G10 P0 S0 R0 X0 Y0 ; Set tool 0 operating and standby temperatures
M307 H1 A326.1 C168.0 D6.1 B0 ; PID tuning settings for H1
M563 P1 D1 H1 F1 ; Define tool 1
G10 P1 S0 R0 X0 Y0 ; Set tool 1 operating and standby temperatures
M92 E90.13:92.67 ; Set extruder steps per mm

dc42 · 2 Mar 2017, 11:57

@cdl1701@yahoo.com:

That's correct dc42. I put this in my config.g

; Tools
M563 P0 D0:1 H1 ; Define tool 0
G10 P0 S0 R0 X0 Y0 ; Set tool 0 axis offsets
G10 P0 R0 S0

That is the configuration for a mixing hot end. For a switching hot end, you should create 2 tools, not 1. See the reply from kraeger.

cdl1701yahoo.com · 2 Mar 2017, 13:33

Ahh I think I am just getting confused about what was the "tool", the hotend or the extruder. Still trying to get my head around this kind of config using all the M, P, D, S, R, H… etc. codes. Doesn't help that by the time I get home my brain is already a bit fried from work.
Really appreciate all the help and sorry for being so "slow" haha.
I will give this a try tonight when I get home.

kraegar · 2 Mar 2017, 13:37

BTW, you almost definitely don't want the "F1" in my tool definition lines. Those are to use fan 1 instead of fan 0 for that tool.

M563 P0 D0 H1 F1 ; Define tool 0

This created tool 0 (P0). It uses drive (extruder) 0 (D0), heater 1 (H1) and Fan 1 (F1).

M563 P1 D1 H1 F1 ; Define tool 1

This creates the second tool (P1), it uses drive (extruder) 1 (D1), heater 1 (H1) and Fan 1 (F1).

So two tools now exist, identical except for which extruder they use.

You'll also want to set up tfreeX.g, tpreX.g, and tpostX.g files for each tool definition.

I've created a post about my configuration with a lot of detail that may help you.

deckingman · 2 Mar 2017, 14:10

@cdl1701@yahoo.com:

Ahh I think I am just getting confused about what was the "tool", the hotend or the extruder. Still trying to get my head around this kind of config using all the M, P, D, S, R, H… etc. codes. Doesn't help that by the time I get home my brain is already a bit fried from work.
Really appreciate all the help and sorry for being so "slow" haha.
I will give this a try tonight when I get home.

A tool can be any combination of nozzle, heater and extruder. So for example with a mixing hot end such as the Diamond, there are 3 filaments going in to a common nozzle and in this case each tool would share the same nozzle and heater but have different extruders. In your case, each tool has a different nozzle, heater and extruder so they have to be defined as such. What you have been doing so far is defining a single tool with the same nozzle and heater but using 2 extruders at the same time, which is why it's getting screwed up. The original link that DC posted explains what you need to do for each set up (including a switching hot end which is what you have). Technically, you could define two tools, both using the same nozzle/heater and both extruders but then you would need to turn on mixing for each tool and set the mixing ratio for one to be 100:0 and the other to be 0:100 so that each tool used 100% of one filament and zero percent of the other, but that's an overly complicated way of achieving what you want to do. HTH

newbie001 · 2 May 2017, 05:31

Hey guys,

I'm looking at installing a Prometheus System, which will require me to upgrade my controller card to support dual extruders with a single hot end. Their support documentation only lists instructions for Marlin/Repetier firmware (https://www.distechautomation.com/pages/pro-sys-guide) but, from the little research I've done, I don't see why a Duet Wifi wouldn't work. I've reached out to the manufacturer but I haven't gotten a response yet. Any known compatibility issues? Any gotchas I should be worried about?

Cheers,
Michael

DjDemonD · 5 Feb 2017, 08:37

Given that these systems are now very popular and by far the easiest route to dual extrusion is a filament y-splitter type device, given that its cheap and easy to implement perhaps a wiki guide specific to this use case might be a good idea?

I can see this being a very popular way of achieving multi-material printing for all the stated reasons, it is also the route that Josef Prusa is taking with his multimaterial upgrade which will sell like hot cakes.

I am at the beginning of this journey but others like Kraegar seem to be the guru here for this approach.

Perhaps we can between us pull together a setup guide for 2in-1out switching systems for use on RRF/Duet? There are several threads now which contain most of the salient information. Maybe even extending it to a basic guide to multimaterial printing since almost none of these exists at this time. Also it might be beneficial to consider this type of system specifically in future firmware improvements?

I am still getting what appear to be uncommanded tool changes happening despite removing any T commands from my gcode, which is making printing with one material (using my second extruder) difficult to say the least.

T3P3Tony · 2 May 2017, 18:16

@DjDemonD:

perhaps a wiki guide specific to this use case might be a good idea?

Yes please, let me know if I can help but I don't have one of these Y splitter type arrangements. My understanding is there are differences in using them in comparison to the Diamond/e3d Cyclops arrangement which is the other many in/one out arrangement. The diamond hotend stuff has been documented is quite some detail by deckingman on his blog.

@DjDemonD:

Also it might be beneficial to consider this type of system specifically in future firmware improvements?

Absolutely - the best plan is to make posts with specific requests in the firmware wishlist forum, that way others can comment on it and we get both a feeling of the functionality required, and of the popularity in comparison to other requests.

@DjDemonD:

am still getting what appear to be uncommanded tool changes happening despite removing any T commands from my gcode.

That is really odd - I print with the second tool on my IDEX machine, I know its a very different setup but only a "T" command should cause the tool to change (and all the tool change scripts to run). I would raise this as a separate thread as we need to get to the bottom of this specific issue.

DjDemonD · 2 May 2017, 18:44

Hi Tony, you have probably noticed I started a new thread and enclose an editable online version of my guide, kraegar said he will add some stuff about how to do multi colour prints, he seems the expert around here with this system.

newbie001 · 3 May 2017, 00:11

Hey guys,

So, I take it that Duet will most likely work fine with the Prometheus system, minus some g-code magic? I'm itching to place the order :).

Thanks!

dc42 · 3 May 2017, 08:30

@newbie001:

Hey guys,

So, I take it that Duet will most likely work fine with the Prometheus system, minus some g-code magic? I'm itching to place the order :).

Thanks!

Yes, the Duet supports switching hot ends, which is what you get with the Prometheus system.

dc42 · 3 May 2017, 08:33

@DjDemonD:

I am still getting what appear to be uncommanded tool changes happening despite removing any T commands from my gcode, which is making printing with one material (using my second extruder) difficult to say the least.

For compatibility with slicers that don't handle tool switching properly, an M109 command with a T parameter will cause a switch to that tool in recent versions of RRF. So check your gcode for M109 commands.