New installation - consistently overextruding though calibrated

dintid · 31 Mar 2017, 10:55

Am still in the process of tuning my machine.

As always I've extruded 100mm filament through my extruder, measured it and calculated stepps mm. Same as always, and matches fine with previous settings on this machine and other printers of mine.

I use high quality PrimaSelect filament from swedish 3DPrima, and the filament I use have not required any modifiers previsously (same rolls even).

Problem is I set my steps to 1025 (high geared extruder) but I have to dial it down to like 650 before I get someone decent results.
When I extrude 100mm filament with the 650mm setting it only extrudes like 6 centimers. (or 2/3 of the 100mm).

This was using 16 microstepping. I tried with an without interpolation and tried 32 microstepping. No change.

I have checked in my slizers (cura) and it IS set to 1,75mm.
My filament IS 1,75mm and I have never had this issue previously.

tomasf · 31 Mar 2017, 15:50

Perhaps your slicer has some extrusion multiplier set? Just an idea.
Also, have you tried other slicers to rule out slicer misconfiguration?

deckingman · 31 Mar 2017, 17:27

This sounds familiar - never did get to the bottom of it though. The problem just kind of went away (although I do still run with 90% extrusion multiplier) - This was the thread - https://www.duet3d.com/forum/thread.php?id=363

Hugues · 31 Mar 2017, 17:42

Can you try to disable pressure advance ? I had the same problem with this feature

dintid · 1 Apr 2017, 06:47

@tomasf:

Perhaps your slicer has some extrusion multiplier set? Just an idea.
Also, have you tried other slicers to rule out slicer misconfiguration?

It's at 100% in Cura, but yea, I have my slizer suspected. I have not tried other slizers as I've spent time trying to find faults in my current setup.

@cubexupgrade:

Can you try to disable pressure advance ? I had the same problem with this feature

Hello Cubex,
Where do you find pressure advance? I'm using Cura and using a new installation.

Hugues · 1 Apr 2017, 07:12

Hi,

Check if there is M572 somewhere in your start gcode or in your config.g file.

dintid · 1 Apr 2017, 07:59

@cubexupgrade:

Hi,

Check if there is M572 somewhere in your start gcode or in your config.g file.

Nothing that I could find

Gcode file after slizing using Cura:

[[language]]
;FLAVOR:RepRap(Volumetric)
;TIME:1025
;Generated with Cura_SteamEngine 2.4.0
M190 S65
M104 S195
M109 S195
G28 ;Home
G1 Z15.0 F3000 ;Move the platform down 15mm
G92 E0
G1 F300 E10
G92 E0
;LAYER_COUNT:100
;LAYER:0
M106 S255
G10
G0 F6000 X82.11 Y77.281 Z0.2
;TYPE:SKIRT
G11

Complete Config.g

[[language]]
; Configuration file for Duet WiFi (firmware version 1.17)
; executed by the firmware on start-up
;
; generated by RepRapFirmware Configuration Tool on Fri Mar 17 2017 14:24:02 GMT+0100 (Rom, normaltid)

; General preferences
M111 S0                ; Debugging off
G21                    ; Work in millimetres
G90                    ; Send absolute coordinates...
; M83                    ; ...but relative extruder moves
M555 P1                ; Set firmware compatibility to look like RepRapFirmare
M208 X0 Y0 Z0 S1       ; Set axis minima
M208 X207 Y197 S0 ; Set axis maxima
M208 Z211.8 S0 ; 213.8 ok - 

; Endstops
M574 X1 Y2 Z2 S1               ; Define active high microswitches

; Drives
M569 P0 S0           		; Drive 0 goes forwards - X
M569 P1 S1            		; Drive 1 goes forwards - Y
M569 P2 S1            		; Drive 2 goes forwards - Z
M569 P3 S0          		; Drive 3 goes forwards - E0
M350 X16 Y16 I1			; XY microstep = Interpolation on/off 1/0
M350 Z16			; Z microstep
M350 E32			; Extruder0 microstep
M92 X80 Y80 Z400 		; XYZ steps mm
; M92 E610 			; Set steps per mm 750 1010 - 1035.353535
M92 E2057 			; 

M566 X900 Y900 Z12 E120        ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
M203 X12000 Y12000 Z2500 E1200 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
M201 X500 Y500 Z250 E250       ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 X800 Y800 E1000 Z1200 I0   ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M84 S5                         ; Set idle timeout

; Heaters
; Teste Hotend: M303 H1 P0.5 S240
; Test Bed M303 H0 P0.1 S100
M143 S320                            ; Set maximum heater temperature to 320C
M307 H0 A520.4 C780.9 D7.4 S1 B0     ; Heated Bed
; M307 H1 A154.6 C59.8 D7.6 S1 B0		; Hotend uden hætte
M307 H1 A253,5 C95.6 D6.8 S1 B0      ; Hotend med hætte
M305 P0 T100000 B3950 C0 R4700       ; BED
M305 P1 T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8 R4700 ; Heater 1

; Tools
M563 P1 D H1; Define tool 1
G10 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 ; Set tool 1 axis offsets
G10 P1 R0 S0 ; Set initial tool 1 active and standby temperatures to 0C

; Network
M550 PDuetUM2 ; Set machine name
M540 P0xBE:0xEF:0xDE:0xAD:0xFE:0xED 
M552 P0.0.0.0 S1	; IP address (0 = use DHCP) S1 enables wifi
; M554 P192.168.1.1   ; Gateway (not used yet
; M533 P255.255.255.0	; Netmask

; LCD
M575 P1 B57600 S1                   ; Set auxiliary serial port baud rate and require checksum (for PanelDue)

; Fans
; https://duet3d.com/wiki/G-code#M106:_Fan_On
; PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control
; M106 P0 S0.3 F500 H-1 F0 ; Set fan 0 value, PWM signal inversion and frequency. Thermostatic control is turned off
M106 P0 S0 H-1 F100 ; Set fan 0 - FAN
M106 P1 S0.97 F400 H1 T50 ; Set fan 1 - HS
M106 P2 S1 H0 T60 ; Set fan 2 - Motor

; Custom settings are not configured

; Miscellaneous
T1 ; Select first tool

DjDemonD · 1 Apr 2017, 16:21

I've had some issues lately. CLone titan extruder calibrated using the 100mm in method, as the OP did. That was on 1.18B3 now using 1.18RC1. I've had to reduce the steps/mm from 470 to 400.

That previous thread Deckingman linked to lists more examples, in that case all titan extruders. What extruder are you using dintid?

Working fine now. But still puzzling.

dintid · 2 Apr 2017, 06:37

@DjDemonD:

I've had some issues lately. CLone titan extruder calibrated using the 100mm in method, as the OP did. That was on 1.18B3 now using 1.18RC1. I've had to reduce the steps/mm from 470 to 400.

That previous thread Deckingman linked to lists more examples, in that case all titan extruders. What extruder are you using dintid?

Working fine now. But still puzzling.

I'm using my own Belted Extruder: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1764551

I've learned I need to set steps/mm to 50% of the calculated steps/mm. Ie. when I extrude 100mm I need to dial steps down, so it actually only extrudes 50mm…

It goes for all my filaments.
I only use quality filaments with quaranteed diameter, and I've previously used the same filaments on same machine with Smoothieware controller without these steps/mm issues.

I don't know what the error is, but it's definetly a firmware problem related to Extruders, as my XY and Z moves fine.

dintid · 3 Apr 2017, 08:57

I've tried using Cura profile for UM2+ (as I've just build a 100% clone of such) - I only changed retract to match E3D and filament from 2.85 to 175mm and now the extrusion seems to match.

I havn't had time to look closely at the startup gcode, as I need to print a bunch of dragons for 5 year old birthday tomorrow, but at a quick look the UM2+ profile contained M82 gcode which sets extruder to absolute mode.

I've previously removed M83 from config.g which sets extruder to relative as it resulted in massive overextrusions - like 10x at least.

I would expect it to function at absolute when not defined as relative, but right now it seems to work when defined as absolute in startup gcode.
I need to look into this more closely when I have time.

dintid · 3 Apr 2017, 11:27

Here's the UM2+ profile, where the correct steps/mm (2025/mm) works as it should when printing:

[[language]]
G21 ;metric values
G90 ;absolute positioning
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode
M107 ;start with the fan off
G28 Z0 ;move Z to bottom endstops
G28 X0 Y0 ;move X/Y to endstops
G1 X15 Y0 F4000 ;move X/Y to front of printer
G1 Z15.0 F9000 ;move the platform to 15mm
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length
G1 F300 E10 ;extrude 10 mm of feed stock
G92 E0 ;zero the extruded length again
G1 F9000
;Put printing message on LCD screen
M117 Printing...

And the "stock" start gcode where I have to use half of the correct steps/mm to get somewhat ok results:

[[language]]
G28 ;Home
G1 Z15.0 F3000 ;Move the platform down 15mm
G92 E0
G1 F300 E10
G92 E0

This leaves us with one of 3 Gcodes, that might affect the steps/mm:
G21 ;metric values
G90 ;absolute positioning
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode

Notes says G90 shouldn't affect extrusions

Note: RepRapFirmware uses M82 to set the extruder to absolute mode: extrusion is NOT set to absolute using G90

That leaves us with one of these - will test when I'm done printing dragons for 5 year olds treasure hunt :):
G21 ;metric values
M82 ;set extruder to absolute mode

dintid · 3 Apr 2017, 12:45

Noticed when I set Machine Type in Cura to Marlin it works but when I change type to RepRapFirmware it overextrudes again, even with the startup that worked above…

burtoogle · 4 Mar 2017, 13:29

Hi, I am currently using Cura 2.5 (beta) and you get the choice of RepRap (Marlin/Sprinter) or RepRap (Volumetric) + others. I am happily using the Marlin variety with my Duet based Kossel XL. As has been mentioned, you just need to set the extruder to absolute mode on print start. Could it be that you are using RepRap (Volumetric)?

dintid · 3 Apr 2017, 13:52

@burtoogle:

Hi, I am currently using Cura 2.5 (beta) and you get the choice of RepRap (Marlin/Sprinter) or RepRap (Volumetric) + others. I am happily using the Marlin variety with my Duet based Kossel XL. As has been mentioned, you just need to set the extruder to absolute mode on print start. Could it be that you are using RepRap (Volumetric)?

Well, you sort of just said what I had found as well

Had to specify M82 (absolute extruder mode) AND run it as Marlin.
This especially seems dumb, when the Web Configurator by default inserts an M83 in config.g file, which I have edited away again, after some initial advice.

But why? Why doesn't it work when running it as RepRapFirmware?
I know it's Volumetric, but I don't know what it means for us endusers?
Also, how to make it work when set it as RepRapFirmware? Seems counterintuitive that we are running RepRapFirmware, but have to specify Marlin/Spring in the slizer?…

burtoogle · 3 Apr 2017, 14:08

I think if you ask the Cura devs that they will admit that the gcode flavour configuration and handling is less than perfect. However, they are only really interested in working on stuff that is Ultimaker specific which is fair enough given that Ultimaker pays them.They are interested in contributions from the community and provide help (and criticism!) to contributors. I have provided some code for the 2.5 release and they have been very helpful in getting it integrated.
Anyway, that means that any fixes/additions that are related to non-Ultimaker machines have to come from the community. i.e. it needs someone who uses Cura on another machine to put the effort in.

Dougal1957 · 3 Apr 2017, 14:21

I Believe you may be getting confused here in Cura RepRap (Volumetric) is not the same as RepRapFirmware and I believe it is a variant of Marlin that deals with Volumetric extrusion rates rather then absolute or relative.

I can't be certain about this but pretty damned sure of the above and that Ultimaker won't be supporting RRF anytime soon.

But it may be worth a support Question to make sure?

dintid · 3 Apr 2017, 17:05

@burtoogle:

I think if you ask the Cura devs that they will admit that the gcode flavour configuration and handling is less than perfect. However, they are only really interested in working on stuff that is Ultimaker specific which is fair enough given that Ultimaker pays them.They are interested in contributions from the community and provide help (and criticism!) to contributors. I have provided some code for the 2.5 release and they have been very helpful in getting it integrated.
Anyway, that means that any fixes/additions that are related to non-Ultimaker machines have to come from the community. i.e. it needs someone who uses Cura on another machine to put the effort in.

I've used Cura the past some years and never had any issues.
Slic3r is doing the same in any way.

Problem is not slizer centric, but Duet WiFi centric, as we MUST have the M82 AND specify it as marlin in the slizer, or it just doesn't work.

@Dougal1957:

I Believe you may be getting confused here in Cura RepRap (Volumetric) is not the same as RepRapFirmware and I believe it is a variant of Marlin that deals with Volumetric extrusion rates rather then absolute or relative.

I can't be certain about this but pretty damned sure of the above and that Ultimaker won't be supporting RRF anytime soon.

But it may be worth a support Question to make sure?

That is part of the issue. I saw it as RepRapFirmware, so lets tick that one.

It's not slizer centric. Slic3r is doing the same. Both normal and the Prusa version.

The 2 main issues is that we MUST have M82 in start code AND specifiy firmware as Marlin.

Also M83 must not, in any way, be present in config.g or startcode, which is odd, since the Web Configurator puts it there by default (config.g).

Dougal1957 · 3 Apr 2017, 17:26

The Configurator puts M83 there because that is the recommended way to run the Duet the reason you have to change it to M82 is because Cura does not do Relative Extrusion (this mode avoids rounding errors that creep in with absolute).

I stopped using Cura quite a while ago once it went to the 2.x.x series due to the buggy nature that I found with it tho I believe the later ones are much better I just prefer S3D for it's control and speed (tho it does have issues with multiple extrusion and mixing hotends but I don't as yet use them).

deckingman · 3 Apr 2017, 17:26

@dintid:

…...................Problem is not slizer centric, but Duet WiFi centric, as we MUST have the M82 AND specify it as marlin in the slizer, or it just doesn't work.

........................It's not slizer centric. Slic3r is doing the same. Both normal and the Prusa version.

The 2 main issues is that we MUST have M82 in start code AND specifiy firmware as Marlin.

Also M83 must not, in any way, be present in config.g or startcode, which is odd, since the Web Configurator puts it there by default (config.g).

As I tried to point out before, you need to configure the slicer and the Duet to use the same extrusion. The configuration tool puts M83 there as a default because most people prefer to use relative extrusion rather than absolute. If you choose to use a slicer that only supports absolute extrusion, or you have the choice of using either relative or absolute in your slicer, but choose to use absolute, then you need to "tell" the Duet firmware that is what you are using. There are a myriad of slicers that users can use but the Duet firmware cannot second guess the choices you have made - you have to tell it.

dintid · 21 Jun 2017, 09:56

@deckingman:

@dintid:

…...................Problem is not slizer centric, but Duet WiFi centric, as we MUST have the M82 AND specify it as marlin in the slizer, or it just doesn't work.

........................It's not slizer centric. Slic3r is doing the same. Both normal and the Prusa version.

The 2 main issues is that we MUST have M82 in start code AND specifiy firmware as Marlin.

Also M83 must not, in any way, be present in config.g or startcode, which is odd, since the Web Configurator puts it there by default (config.g).

As I tried to point out before, you need to configure the slicer and the Duet to use the same extrusion. The configuration tool puts M83 there as a default because most people prefer to use relative extrusion rather than absolute. If you choose to use a slicer that only supports absolute extrusion, or you have the choice of using either relative or absolute in your slicer, but choose to use absolute, then you need to "tell" the Duet firmware that is what you are using. There are a myriad of slicers that users can use but the Duet firmware cannot second guess the choices you have made - you have to tell it.

When you say "most people" what kind of group is this? And what slizer is this? Old duet users maybe?

I've never, ever, met anyone using relative extrusion.. goes for Sliz3r, Cura and S3D for sure…

The M83 should NOT be put into the config.g by default... should be a tick option for the people using this to put in... I take it the people using relative extrusion are doing this on purpose.. meaning they can actively put it in, while all the rest use default standard slizer settings, which means absolute settings and have no idea what's going on.

Edit:
They don't know, as they have just always used the default settings, which is relative, so when everything goes down the drain because of this M83, they have absolutely no clue as to why it's happening.. the ones using Relative extrusion on purpose knows they need to put the setting into their config.g file.

Edit:
This is exactly the same issue when Servos wasn't supported initially as it was an old tech... or smoothie not supporting "software endstops" (define axis lenghts) because DEVs didn't use it... Just because DEVs or a select group of people do something, does not mean that "most people" are doing the same.
Edit: no, not a flame on smoothieware, they have also nice firmware, just used as an example