Duet3D Logo Duet3D
    • Tags
    • Documentation
    • Order
    • Register
    • Login

    Core XYU or XYUV

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved
    General Discussion
    6
    41
    3.2k
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • deckingmanundefined
      deckingman @curlypaul
      last edited by deckingman

      @curlypaul "Angry noises" is nicely descriptive. 🙂 It seems that the motors are fighting against each other - or maybe one or more is stationary.

      I'm looking at your home Y file and trying to figure out what's different between a G1 Y move there and a G1 Y move outside of home Y. 2 things leap out at me (but I'm not sure how it helps).

      Firstly, you seem to have a scattering of "G1 S1" moves in amongst the "G1 H2s". So you ought to correct them (edit - change them from S1 to H1).

      Secondly H1 and H2 moves select individual motor mode. So I'm guessing that if you send G1 H2 Ynn it will work, but if you send G1 Ynn (without the "H") you'll get "angry noises". Can you check if that's the case?

      Ian
      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

      curlypaulundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • curlypaulundefined
        curlypaul @deckingman
        last edited by

        @deckingman - I didn't spot the S1 in HomeY, That's gone now - still the same

        In the meantime, I thought I'd try swapping the carriages - so U is now RH / X LH still the same issue

        It's really baffling me, all axis move the correct way and amount on their own, just whenever need to 'mix' axes (if that makes sense) Y goes wrong.

        I unhid V and sent a M564 H0. U and V move correct ways and I can then move X try and move Y .... angry noises

        I reset... I move X,U and Y, and X,Y and U try and move V - angry noises 😞

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • curlypaulundefined
          curlypaul
          last edited by

          Endeavoured to make a video of whats going on..

          https://youtu.be/z0dNBMlm_lQ

          This is with carriages swapped from original - as mentioned in previous post

          deckingmanundefined 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • deckingmanundefined
            deckingman @curlypaul
            last edited by

            @curlypaul Sorry for the delay - had a power outage here. Did you try sending G1 H2 Ynn to see if that works, then G1 Ynn (without the H2)?

            Then maybe try G1 H2 Vnn. If V goes the opposite way, then that might explain why Y (which is Y and V) goes haywire.

            Ian
            https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
            https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

            curlypaulundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • deckingmanundefined
              deckingman @curlypaul
              last edited by

              @curlypaul Also, after homing, try sending M584 P3 to see if that makes any difference.

              Ian
              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • deckingmanundefined
                deckingman @curlypaul
                last edited by

                @curlypaul Edit - to attempt to home V you'll need to use M584 P5 to make it visible.

                Ian
                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • curlypaulundefined
                  curlypaul @deckingman
                  last edited by

                  @deckingman - No worries - i Had to walk away from it for a bit anyway !

                  So I tried the H2 and without - I just what can only be described a machine gun noise - mostly from the 'x' carriage

                  After the M584 P5, the 'U' carriage just twitches

                  deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • curlypaulundefined
                    curlypaul
                    last edited by curlypaul

                    Right - Think spotted something !?
                    after homing x,y and u - it appears to me that the lower pair of 'U' axis motors aren't moving when I try to move Y

                    deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • deckingmanundefined
                      deckingman @curlypaul
                      last edited by

                      @curlypaul That's weird. Because a G1 H2 Ynn move is what you have in your homing file and you say that homing file works fine (in fact your video shows it working fine). So I really can't understand why sending exactly the same command outside of homeY doesn't work. If you were re-mapping motors or some such I could understand it, but you aren't doing that. The only thing you do at the end of homeY is restore the motor currents and change the endstop settings but none of that should make any difference.

                      I've really run out of ideas - we need DC42 or someone else equally knowledgeable to look at this. Clutching at straws but maybe try removing the final M574 at the end of homeY. I really don;t see why that should make any difference but it's the only thing (apart from motor currents) that gets changed after Y has been homed.

                      Ian
                      https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                      https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                      curlypaulundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • deckingmanundefined
                        deckingman @curlypaul
                        last edited by

                        @curlypaul said in Core XYU or XYUV:

                        Right - Think spotted something !?
                        after homing x,y and u - it appears to me that the lower pair of 'U' axis motors aren't moving when I try to move Y

                        Yes I figured something like that was happening - hence the "angry noises". The question is why (when they all move as expected during homing). And why again, when you send G1 Ynn H2 which is exactly the same thing as your homing move.

                        Ian
                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • curlypaulundefined
                          curlypaul @deckingman
                          last edited by

                          @deckingman - I'm going to try to add switches instead of the sensorless see if that makes a difference ?

                          deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • deckingmanundefined
                            deckingman @curlypaul
                            last edited by deckingman

                            @curlypaul Another thought. Maybe it is a motor mapping thing and one pair of motors never moves as expected. But when you reduce the motor current (as you do for homing) the holding current isn't enough to hold them in position. So it looks like you get correct movement and without angry noises but that's just because the lower holding current is masking the problem with stationary motors. That would be easy to test - just leave out that final M913 X100 Y100 from home Y.

                            Try that - Home Y but leave the motor current reduced. Then try moving Y. If Y them moves without angry noises, we know it's a motor mapping/motor direction thing.

                            Ian
                            https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                            https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • curlypaulundefined
                              curlypaul
                              last edited by

                              I thought you were onto something there !

                              But alas.. the UV motors are still not moving after homing, motor current is definitely reduced as now 'x' carriage twitches as I try to move Y

                              deckingmanundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • deckingmanundefined
                                deckingman @curlypaul
                                last edited by

                                @curlypaul I'll have to sleep on it. I can't get my head around why it all works fine during homing but after homing, the exact same commands as used in homing make things go haywire. Just doesn't make any sense........

                                Ian
                                https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                curlypaulundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • curlypaulundefined
                                  curlypaul @deckingman
                                  last edited by

                                  @deckingman - No 😞
                                  I've had enough for today anyway ! 😥

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • deckingmanundefined
                                    deckingman @curlypaul
                                    last edited by deckingman

                                    @curlypaul said in Core XYU or XYUV:

                                    This

                                    .. the UV motors are still not moving after homing, motor current is definitely reduced as now 'x' carriage twitches as I try to move Y

                                    seems to me like my dual gantry CoreXYUV. Where "normal movement" is with multiple motors mapped to axes. But to home them I map individual motors to individual axes, home them, then re-combine them.

                                    So my config.g starts with this (actually it's CoreXYUVAB - just ignore the AB)
                                    M584 X3.2:0.0:0.2 Y3.1:0.1:0.3 Z3.0 U0.0 V0.1 A0.2 B0.3 E1.0:1.1:1.2:2.0:2.1:2.2 P7
                                    I also use M669 with custom matrix for the AB gantry but that's of no concern here.

                                    It's also RRF 3 so the motors are defined by Board:Position (3.2 means driver2 on expansion board 3).

                                    As you can see, it start with U and A also mapped to X, and V and B mapped to Y.

                                    Then at the start of my home all, to home X and Y I do this:
                                    M584 X3.2 Y3.1; temporarily map X3.2 and Y to 3.1 only

                                    That removes the U and A from X and the V and B from Y.
                                    So then I home X,Y U,V A and B individually.

                                    Then I recombine U and A with X, and V and B with Y and hide those other axes using this.
                                    M584 X3.2:0.0:0.2 Y3.1:0.1:0.3 P3

                                    So I'm pretty sure you need to do something long those lines for your V and Y axis. But your X and U need to run independently and I don't know how to handle that combination.

                                    Maybe it isn't CoreXYUV in the true sense and you need to use M669 with some weird matrix (but then DC said it was CoreXYUV).

                                    Not sure if I need sleep now or caffeine 🙂

                                    Ian
                                    https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                    https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • curlypaulundefined
                                      curlypaul
                                      last edited by

                                      Some progress today 🙂

                                      Update on previous first though, Adding actual endstops make no difference
                                      My issue still appears that in CoreXYUV - M669 K8 - After homing X,Y, and U My 'V' axis motors do not move when Y is commanded. As a note though the UV Motors do move and correctly when homing Y

                                      So, clutching at my last remaining straws, I tried CoreXYU/K5 mode, It's working as it should

                                      I'm baffled - I'm going with it for the time being to move onto wiring it all up

                                      I've atttached files, just in case anyone can see something blindingly obvious, as I still can't

                                      homey.g homex.g homeu.g config.g

                                      deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • deckingmanundefined
                                        deckingman @curlypaul
                                        last edited by

                                        @curlypaul It makes sense to me, because you don't have a separate "V" axis. That is to say, Y and V are one and the same thing. So logic would dictate that it ought to be CoreXYU. But DC said it should be CoreXYUV and he wrote the firmware so he should know (unless he just didn't look closely enough to spot your common gantry? ). I don't enough about the kinematics matrices to make any sort of informed judgement.

                                        User @wilriker told me what command to use in my CoreXYUVAB which is this:
                                        M669 K8 A0:0:0:0:0:1:1 B0:0:0:0:0:1:-1

                                        ........but I have no idea how he arrived at the values for A and B - I just put in what he told me and it works. Not that any of this is relevant to your situation.......

                                        Ian
                                        https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                        https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • curlypaulundefined
                                          curlypaul
                                          last edited by curlypaul

                                          Quick update.. All running on well on 2.02 for some strange reason, but have managed a couple of dual colour prints..!
                                          IMG_20200523_200730.jpg

                                          Few things to sort out, but getting there bit by bit 🙂

                                          deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • deckingmanundefined
                                            deckingman @curlypaul
                                            last edited by deckingman

                                            @curlypaul Congrats! Those prints don't look to scruffy at all!.

                                            Ian
                                            https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                                            https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                                            curlypaulundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • First post
                                              Last post
                                            Unless otherwise noted, all forum content is licensed under CC-BY-SA