More info regarding zesty tech nimble v1

Dakota

Re: Zesty Tech Nimble and retraction issues/re-engaging issues

So... I’m bringing this discussion back from the dead lol

I think a possible thing that we missed when discussing this issue at the beginning was the difference in our extruder motors. I have noticed by holding my extruder motor and listening to it that it can begin to skip steps. I have played around with a number of acceleration settings, jerk settings, and motor current settings. None have proven to be a reliable fix. I even tried taking a brand new stepper motor to see if maybe that stepper had gone bad over time. No fix there alas.
I have noticed in the version 2 nimble they decreased the gear ratio and I believe that would help, though I’m unable to test that theory as they are never in stock and I haven’t found out how to grow money on trees while pursuing a college degree lol.
So as I’m stuck with my version 1, I will pursue trying out a better stepper motor that can handle such high speeds with quick starts and stops. If that doesn’t work I’ve played around with the idea of possibly designing a “gear box” to reduce the amount of steps required. I’ll post any findings on this thread for anyone else in the same boat.

fcwilt

@Dakota

Hi

The last I heard was that they were not happy with v2 and were working on v3.

But this fool pandemic has messed them up like everyone else.

Frederick

Dakota

@fcwilt

Sadly I don’t believe I have access via that same link, but if you figure out another way for me to see what new information they have I’m all ears!

Thanks,

Dakota

fcwilt

@Dakota said in More info regarding zesty tech nimble v1:

@fcwilt

Sadly I don’t believe I have access via that same link, but if you figure out another way for me to see what new information they have I’m all ears!

Thanks,

Dakota

So the link doesn't work for you? I wonder why.

Perhaps you can just connect to discord.com and locate the channel relating to zesty 3

I know nothing about discord.com - I just use the link I was given.

Frederick

garyd9

@Dakota

You didn't mention what stepper you're using... (and I'm too lazy to read the old thread.) However, skipped steps is likely from acceleration or jerk being set too high (or, oddly enough, having too much power going to the stepper.) Toward the end of this thread, I'll show you the (very aggressive) settings I'm using for my nimble v1.2.

The v2 would probably be MORE likely to cause skipping, not less. Lower ratio means it would have to spin slower, but would need more torque. Regardless, the v2 was an exercise in "oops." Take your guess as to why (and zesty has offered at least 3-4 different explanations), but it was causing ripple issues. I ended up requesting and getting my money back for that mess (and I'm not interested in dealing with Zesty any longer after the massive delays in shipping the v2, the mess that shipping itself was, and then the fact that it was a faulty product.)

I don't know what kind of printer your mounting the nimble on, but you might be better off with a very lightweight direct drive instead of the whole "remote" direct drive thing. Here's a project that I'm watching that seems very interesting: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4725897

As for my own settings, I'm mounting on a delta with smart effector, and using the 900mm cable. I long ago stopped using the flaky red filament breech thing and am instead using this: https://www.thingiverse.com/make:776332

My stepper is a part 14HS11-1004S from StepperOnline (https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/index.php?route=product/isearch&search=14HS11-1004S) That's a NEMA14, not a NEMA17. I only run it at 500 mA.

My stepper related duet settings are (rrf 3.2):

M569 P0.3 S0    ; E0 physical drive 0.3 goes forwards
M350 E16 I1   ; configure microstepping with interpolation
M92 E2612    ; steps/mm  (measured)
M566 E250    ; "jerk" - zesty suggest 50.  350 works, but clicks but sounds like it's tearing up the nimble gears
M203 E3000    ; set maximum speeds (mm/min) (50mm/sec is really only used for retracts)
M201 E900   ; set accelerations (mm/s^2)
M906 E500 I30    ; set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
M572 D0 S0.04   ; pressure advance.  Any more than 0.04, and the lower jerk starts slowing down print jobs

OwenD

I found the best performance I got from my V2 zesty came when I threw it in a drawer and put my ingested bowden back on.
Spent hours trying to tune that thing. Could never get rid of the banding and consistency in extrusion was elusive . Final straw was the breech going soft in an unheated enclosure.
The design just never delivered the theoretical speed benefits so I've switched to a water cooled direct drive and accepted the lower speeds.

Dakota

@OwenD

Wow... yeah I guess with such a small market base I never heard any feedback from customers on how the product was going. That’s quite sad to hear as the nimble has a lot of promising benefits, but sadly not enough testing to ensure a consistent and accurate product... well, I guess I need to look in another direction as far as extruders, possibly that one that @garyd9 mentioned, I like the use of the planetary gears.

matt3o

@Dakota there are many happy customers (here on the forum as well). I tried the flex3drive but I'm not overwhelmed.

Dakota

@garyd9

Thanks for the great feed back Gary! Yeah I just think I never heard much about the v2 as reviews are hard to come by. I might look into the project you’ve been keeping an eye on, that sounds pretty interesting. But yeah I think at this point I’m probably going to throw in the towel instead of continuing down the rabbit hole with the amount of user issues I’ve seen on these forms... tis a shame, I had high hopes for the nimble.

Dakota

@matt3o

Yeah I had seen that option as well, seems to me to be a little more rough on the edges than the nimble, however again finding user reviews and feed back hasn’t been a simple search for flex3drive either.

matt3o

@Dakota don't open that can of worms, I tried but people are very opinionated on those products. Either hate it or love it, but if you have any question regarding the flexdrive don't hesitate to ask.

Carlo

@Dakota

I have both nimble V2 and flex3drive whilst the nimble V2 has issues they claim is distortion during cooling of the injection molded gears it being a poor copy of the flex3drive there being a whole heap of story behind that I have had no issues with the flex3drive and have it on 3 printers all I would say is keep your tuning around the default spec especially with regard to acceleration and motor power lower the better
And if purchasing don't buy the SLA printed kit parts print your own if able to and buy the hardware kit, The orbiter I also have is really good highly recommend it got it back on my delta now with a lightened mount seeing how it goes.

fcwilt

I perhaps should have mentioned that I have two printers with Nimble devices (don't recall the version) and I am very pleased.

I hope the v3 sees that light of day.

Frederick

Dougal1957

@fcwilt Frederick FYI the Zesty Discord is a closed one open only to there customers.

For what its worth I have 4 Nimbles (one of which is unused) and have had no issues with them once they have been tuned fore steps and then flow.

Doug

fcwilt

@Dougal1957 said in More info regarding zesty tech nimble v1:

@fcwilt Frederick FYI the Zesty Discord is a closed one open only to there customers.

For what its worth I have 4 Nimbles (one of which is unused) and have had no issues with them once they have been tuned fore steps and then flow.

Doug

Thanks for that information.

As I mentioned I was simply using the link I was given - I missed they part that they only gave them to customers.

Frederick

garyd9

@Dougal1957 said in More info regarding zesty tech nimble v1:

@fcwilt Frederick FYI the Zesty Discord is a closed one open only to there customers.

For what its worth I have 4 Nimbles (one of which is unused) and have had no issues with them once they have been tuned fore steps and then flow.

Doug

Doug, I'm not sure that the nimbles that you have are relevant to the discussion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't your nimbles, for the most part, pre-release beta parts? It seemed that none of the v2 beta testers had the same ripple problems that a large majority of people had with the full release version. That would suggest that the "beta" versions are somehow different from the "public" versions.

Dougal1957

@garyd9 nope there not pre release parts (one of the V2's was but the other 3 were not).

I have a V1 Sidewinder (Unused) a V1 and 2 V2's none of which have caused me any grief at all I can however induce the so called ripple by adjust my Flow rate ore steps which is why I said once I had them Tuned.

Guess I have just been lucky with mine

fcwilt

@Dougal1957 said in More info regarding zesty tech nimble v1:
I can however induce the so called ripple by adjust my Flow rate ore steps

JOOC what sort of adjustments did you make? Was it by trial and error?

Thanks.

Frederick

Dougal1957

@fcwilt yes if the ripple is in an upward direction reduce steps or flow and vice versa

garyd9

@Dougal1957 said in More info regarding zesty tech nimble v1:

@fcwilt yes if the ripple is in an upward direction reduce steps or flow and vice versa

That's interesting and I have to admit that I'm a bit jealous that it worked out on yours. Mine was one where no amount of adjustment would solve the problems. When I increased or reduced flow (steps/mm) on my v2, it didn't have any noticeable impact on rippling (and inconsistent extrusion overall) until there were obvious signs of under or over extrusion.