Polycarbonate build plate…. No bed heat Success!!!
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Im testing a new build plate for someone at the moment http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,776178,777450#msg-777450 and the issue is not adhesion, it sticks really well even at modest temperatures or no heat at all. The issue is release, ABS parts printed with any squash down on the first layer at a surface temp of more than 60 degrees are welded to the surface.
This is where established products like printbite have been carefully formulated, they need higher temps to stick but release parts at higher temps for convenience.
How does the PC sheet work in this regard? As I see it the best surface is one which is essentially permanent and long lasting, so if release is a problem and requires sharp tools this isnt likely to be the case. Otherwise the surface has to be cheap and easily replaced as its longevity is short.
My extruder has a hard time with nylon but here is your test object printed with Nylon 645 for comparison. No bed heat was used it would benefit from the mouse ears on corners.
PETG has no problem without bed heat the x carriage printing this print was done in Guidel!ne which is a PETG variant there was no bed heat and no warping on the carriage
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Is this stuff the same thing as Lexan in the States?
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Yes polycarbonate we are just using the black no name knock off version most likely from china.
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So I printed another type of nylon based filament today Taulman PCTPE (Nijaflex with Nylon added)….. this build plate definitely gets its limits tested with anything containing Acetal POM or Nylon. When I used matter hackers pro flex, it almost stuck too good but was removable.... But any of the Nylons or Acetal Pom will need a brim to print without bed heat to prevent warping.
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got my clear PC (no black available) today and did a first test print. Worked well. Sticks well.
Subsequent test prints had major issues with ABS with cold HB and also at 55C. I get the feeling that something else is off. This is very strange (went back to fixed Zheight as my probe had major issues with the clear sanded PC with variances of 0.9mm during mesh bed leveling).More tests later…..
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Yes polycarbonate we are just using the black no name knock off version most likely from china.
What's a good source in the UK for the black polycarbonate?
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got my clear PC (no black available) today and did a first test print. Worked well. Sticks well.
Subsequent test prints had major issues with ABS with cold HB and also at 55C. I get the feeling that something else is off. This is very strange (went back to fixed Zheight as my probe had major issues with the clear sanded PC with variances of 0.9mm during mesh bed leveling).More tests later…..
I had a feeling it wouldnt work, you might need a piezo sensor to use clear PC. or you can manually level your bed using the paper test.
What started me down this path in trying black PC is the sensor does not even detect my Fleks3D plate that has an etched surface.
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Yes polycarbonate we are just using the black no name knock off version most likely from china.
What's a good source in the UK for the black polycarbonate?
Not sure (i live in US) but grey PC would probably work as well and might be more readily available. Basically any type of PC that is Opaque unless you are using a piezo sensor
In the US we have plastic shops that all they sell is plastic sheet and rods…. does the UK have something similar?
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I bought mine in a company that makes the lights for the ads in the streets, they kindly sold me a couple of pieces cut at the size I needed.
I've not sanded it yet, didn't have time this week =_=.
BTW, found this video in youtube about the sand process and test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDK7y0F6a1o
Regards
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Yeah the clear PC works thats what the Fleks3d build plate is made out of and where i got the idea to try sanding black PC but it doesnt work with the IR probe. Also i have had better luck with adhesion of a wider selection of materials on the black PC than i did with my Fleks3d plate without bed heat which causes PC to warp above 55c
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I just picked up a couple 11x14" sheets of Lexan at Home Depot to experiment with. I'll cut one down to fit my current heated bed (around 8" by 12" but it's actually slightly larger) and save the other one for my new MIC6 1/2" thick aluminum jig plate that I'll be mounting soon (it's 9"x14").
I'll be interested in seeing if this can be made to work with the DC42 IR sensor. I haven't mounted the sensor yet either, but I have it, and I'll get it on there soon.
I think my first experiment will be using my random-orbital sander and a 100 grit sanding pad to scuff up the surface as the OP described (though he used 60 grit) and then just clamp the Lexan directly to the heated bed. If this works out well I could replace my bed->thermal pad->glass plate->PEI sheet with a simple bed -> scuffed lexan solution that would probably be more uniform. I've had great success with PEI so I've been assuming my next bed would include something like a PEI sheet (if I can find one big enough), but this Lexan is cheap (I paid under $8 for each 11x14" sheet) and if it's just as good, or even better, that's a bonus.
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My black one works with the IR sensor.
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Hi there,
First of all, big big thanks to Whitewolf for letting us know this… I'm at a really early stage, but so far, this material looks awesome.
Yesterday I sanded one of the sheets I bought (the transparent one) with a 80gr sand paper to start with, and with a 120gr after, it was really easy (I've recorded a video, and I will post it with a timelapse of one print I did last night) and only took around 10 minutes, then I washed it, and gave another try with the 120gr sand paper, whased it again, and cleaned with alcohol.
I tried it with PETG, a material I had problems printing with, even with heated bed (around 70 degrees) and blue painter, as it usually warped in the corners... I had more success with my black Buildtak, although removing the part from Buildtak was a nightmare (I've ruined a sheet of Buildtak trying to remove a failed PETG print). However, with PC the process was really really easy, like magic! It sticks without issues to the surface (I'm having a bit of elephant foot, I still need to adjust the Z offset) and you cannot remove it by hand after the print (really well sticked to the surface) but as Whitewolf suggested, I just removed the surface from the bed, bend it a bit, and... voila! It came off in a second, undamaged! (both, surface and part). I was crying after it xD.
The only problem I'm facing is that, as the surface I bought wasn't manufactured for 3dprinting, the surface is not totally flat (in fact, as per the sensor, is not flat at all), and the bulldog clips are not helping either, although the piezo sensor seems to be doing a really good job detecting the unevenness of the surface and the duet is compensating it. I think the white sheet I bought is more straight, so I will sand it too and give it a try. Not sure if I can use the heated bed to try to make it more straight, my suspect is that I will need more than 100 degrees and that I will do more harm than good.
So far (I just printed a couple of parts, just in PETG, with no heated bed and no warp at all), I'm really happy, this seems to be really promising, and in contrast with the Buildtak, I'm not afraid of ruining it, as A) I can just sand it again, or B) I can flip it over, sand the bottom, and use it again, or C) Is cheaper than Buildtak, so I just can buy another one :D.
Cheers!
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you need to sand the other side and clip it from the other side… sorry i forgot to mention that before.... most PC has a cup... being sure to not have the cup upward is the key to a closly flat surface.
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LOL, I see… I've sanded that side because it was in a bit worse condition, with some scratches, and I thought that "if I ruin it, is not the best side" xD. Funny thing, I did over a small table, without adding anything between the shit and the table, so now the "best" side is full of scratches
(not important at all, after the sand all will be gone...)I will sand the other side then and test again, thanks!
Regards
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sheet* and the table
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If I bought Lexan sheets offered up for use as window panes and whatnot, are you guys saying these typically have a scooped side? Or are you talking about PC from other sources?
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Not sure about window pane grade…. I have seen many varations of PC some costing a lot more. I am sure those versions have better tolerences and are probably machined flat... I am referring to the cheap stuff on amazon and other sources.
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Some of the versions specifically designed for glazing may have UV coatings etc
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Some of the versions specifically designed for glazing may have UV coatings etc
I've got some 100 and 150 grit sand pads for my random orbital sander. I'll experiment with using them to scuff up the surface of the Lexan, clamp it directly onto my build plate (no thermal pads or anything in between) and give this a try. I wonder if any coatings that might be there will be removed by this? Or, barring that, whether they'll make any difference?
I print a lot of PLA, PETG, and more recently I've been experimenting with ASA. I've got a PC/ASA blend I want to try as well, and I've experimented with PCMax and eSun's ePC before as well, and some things like Taulman's alloy 910. I probably won't go back to PCMax until I've got some kind of enclosure. The ePC was too brittle to be of much use to me. The others I'd really like to see if they'll stick to this Lexan.
I've never actuall printed anything without a heated bed. Not sure if that really interests me, to be honest. I not only like how the heat helps things stick, but the difference between heat and no heat helps me remove things since the hold on the build plate reduces as the prints cool down to room temperature and there's that little bit of shrinkage of the filament, breaking the bonds that hold it. Been printing on PEI for many moons now, and I love it. I'm really just curious how this Lexan compares to PEI.
