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    Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.

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    • joekoundefined
      joeko @Exerqtor
      last edited by

      @exerqtor said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

      @joeko
      Have you re tuned the heater after upgrading to b7? I haven't gotten around to test mine btw, so just asking out of curiosity 😋

      yes after update from 3.3 to this beta7 i did an pid tuning for bed and hotend with m500. with 3.3 there was no problem. i reduced the r in 307 to 0.19 and was able to heat the bed and print

      Exerqtorundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Exerqtorundefined
        Exerqtor @joeko
        last edited by

        @joeko said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

        @exerqtor said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

        @joeko
        Have you re tuned the heater after upgrading to b7? I haven't gotten around to test mine btw, so just asking out of curiosity 😋

        yes after update from 3.3 to this beta7 i did an pid tuning for bed and hotend with m500. with 3.3 there was no problem. i reduced the r in 307 to 0.19 and was able to heat the bed and print

        Well in that case it looks like the heater tuning needs more work @dc42 😆

        Gixxerfastundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • Gixxerfastundefined
          Gixxerfast @Exerqtor
          last edited by

          @exerqtor said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

          Well in that case it looks like the heater tuning needs more work

          Actually, I have more heater problems as well with the b7 than I had with the b6. Instead of one error while heating up that just could be restarted I now have to restart it three times. And I have done the heater tuning (pid calibration).

          Thing is a have a active carbon filter under the bed where the fans kicks in at 65C. Although it's a very low airflow it seems to disturb the heating process.

          I would like an option to just turn all this control off. Max temp supervision is enough for me as far as I can understand it now.

          Sorry to hog in in this thread.

          Voron V2.4 (#1317) with Duet 3 Mini5+ Wifi and 1LC v1.1 Toolboard
          Voron V0.1 (#637) with Duet 3 Mini 5+ Wifi and 1LC v1.2 Toolboard
          Ender 3 Pro with BTT SKR-2 + RRF

          SIamundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • SIamundefined
            SIam @Gixxerfast
            last edited by

            Short feedback from my side, the problem is not solved 😞

            The Result from the pid tuning with RFF 3.4.b6:
            M307 H0 R0.460 C286.278:286.278 D0.90 S1.00 V24.3 B0 I0

            and the result from PID tuning with RRF 3.4.b7:
            M307 H0 R0.484 K0.438:0.000 D0.85 E1.35 S1.00 B0

            and the error:
            Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising too slowly: expected 0.43°C/sec measured 0.19°C/sec

            Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
            Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
            RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
            Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
            Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

            hestiahuangundefined dc42undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • hestiahuangundefined
              hestiahuang @SIam
              last edited by

              @siam @joeko pls refer to the workaround to make your printers work first. Change the code and build at your local, then flash it. The workaround I posted above.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • hestiahuangundefined
                hestiahuang @hestiahuang
                last edited by

                @hestiahuang said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                @dc42
                yes, I did. Ran Auto PID and saved, also restarted. But still failed, even I used bangbang mode, full speed, I mean.
                f8407f95-69a0-4681-8397-802319220802-image.png
                bf0bf4db-e9fe-45ab-8515-8d90cce13e5c-image.png
                72158536-c695-4211-a59a-26ce79e18b35-image.png
                After above, I got this too b68c20db-d126-466c-adc8-cf9f6680ff2d-image.png

                Then I changed the code and built Beta7 version, everything looks good now.
                I adjusted the factor 0.5 to small value simplely => RepRapFirmware\src\Heating\LocalHeater.cpp => Line#317 => if (actualTemperatureRise < expectedTemperatureRise * 0.5)
                e27e72fe-a7b6-44b3-9d5d-16b07a445495-image.png

                Quoted here.
                However I don't have dropbox, and can't share my firmware here. Good Luck!

                hestiahuangundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • hestiahuangundefined
                  hestiahuang @hestiahuang
                  last edited by

                  @hestiahuang said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                  @hestiahuang said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                  @dc42
                  yes, I did. Ran Auto PID and saved, also restarted. But still failed, even I used bangbang mode, full speed, I mean.
                  f8407f95-69a0-4681-8397-802319220802-image.png
                  bf0bf4db-e9fe-45ab-8515-8d90cce13e5c-image.png
                  72158536-c695-4211-a59a-26ce79e18b35-image.png
                  After above, I got this too b68c20db-d126-466c-adc8-cf9f6680ff2d-image.png

                  Then I changed the code and built Beta7 version, everything looks good now.
                  I adjusted the factor 0.5 to small value simplely => RepRapFirmware\src\Heating\LocalHeater.cpp => Line#317 => if (actualTemperatureRise < expectedTemperatureRise * 0.5)
                  e27e72fe-a7b6-44b3-9d5d-16b07a445495-image.png

                  Quoted here.
                  However I don't have dropbox, and can't share my firmware here. Good Luck!

                  Highlight the code for you all again.

                  I adjusted the factor 0.5 to small value simplely =>🐤 [RepRapFirmware\src\Heating\LocalHeater.cpp]🐤 => Line#317 => if (actualTemperatureRise < expectedTemperatureRise * 0.5)

                  SIamundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • SIamundefined
                    SIam @hestiahuang
                    last edited by

                    @hestiahuang your workaround is not for everybody to make, so the easier way is to half the R value and the bed is heating without error

                    Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
                    Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
                    RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
                    Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
                    Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

                    hestiahuangundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • hestiahuangundefined
                      hestiahuang @SIam
                      last edited by

                      @siam I want to say even I use bangbang mode the issue is still, bangbang is using the full power(24V) already. So code change is the only way to me.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • dc42undefined
                        dc42 administrators @SIam
                        last edited by

                        @siam said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                        Short feedback from my side, the problem is not solved 😞

                        The Result from the pid tuning with RFF 3.4.b6:
                        M307 H0 R0.460 C286.278:286.278 D0.90 S1.00 V24.3 B0 I0

                        and the result from PID tuning with RRF 3.4.b7:
                        M307 H0 R0.484 K0.438:0.000 D0.85 E1.35 S1.00 B0

                        and the error:
                        Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising too slowly: expected 0.43°C/sec measured 0.19°C/sec

                        Please post the temperature plot while heating up the bed, to help me diagnose this.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                        SIamundefined hestiahuangundefined 4 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • SIamundefined
                          SIam @dc42
                          last edited by

                          @dc42 here you can download a short video:

                          https://kleinersonnenschein.eu/video/heaterfault.mp4

                          Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
                          Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
                          RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
                          Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
                          Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

                          dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • hestiahuangundefined
                            hestiahuang @dc42
                            last edited by

                            @dc42 said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                            @siam said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                            Short feedback from my side, the problem is not solved 😞

                            The Result from the pid tuning with RFF 3.4.b6:
                            M307 H0 R0.460 C286.278:286.278 D0.90 S1.00 V24.3 B0 I0

                            and the result from PID tuning with RRF 3.4.b7:
                            M307 H0 R0.484 K0.438:0.000 D0.85 E1.35 S1.00 B0

                            and the error:
                            Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising too slowly: expected 0.43°C/sec measured 0.19°C/sec

                            Please post the temperature plot while heating up the bed, to help me diagnose this.

                            yes, the same issue, I mean too.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • hestiahuangundefined
                              hestiahuang @dc42
                              last edited by

                              @dc42 said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                              @siam said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                              Short feedback from my side, the problem is not solved 😞

                              The Result from the pid tuning with RFF 3.4.b6:
                              M307 H0 R0.460 C286.278:286.278 D0.90 S1.00 V24.3 B0 I0

                              and the result from PID tuning with RRF 3.4.b7:
                              M307 H0 R0.484 K0.438:0.000 D0.85 E1.35 S1.00 B0

                              and the error:
                              Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising too slowly: expected 0.43°C/sec measured 0.19°C/sec

                              Please post the temperature plot while heating up the bed, to help me diagnose this.

                              Want to confirm that, the same printer with different firmware, such as rrf and klipper, no issue on klipper

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • hestiahuangundefined
                                hestiahuang @dc42
                                last edited by

                                @dc42 said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                                @siam said in Heater fault on heated bed because it's rising to slow.:

                                Short feedback from my side, the problem is not solved 😞

                                The Result from the pid tuning with RFF 3.4.b6:
                                M307 H0 R0.460 C286.278:286.278 D0.90 S1.00 V24.3 B0 I0

                                and the result from PID tuning with RRF 3.4.b7:
                                M307 H0 R0.484 K0.438:0.000 D0.85 E1.35 S1.00 B0

                                and the error:
                                Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising too slowly: expected 0.43°C/sec measured 0.19°C/sec

                                Please post the temperature plot while heating up the bed, to help me diagnose this.

                                For the bed heater case above, it is very normal that take 5~10mins to heat the bed from around 20°C to around 80°C, (80°C-20°C) / 0.19°C/sec /60sec/min=5.26min. So I think 'the quick factor' is good to apply to tools heater but not for bed heater.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • dc42undefined
                                  dc42 administrators @SIam
                                  last edited by

                                  @siam thanks for the video, that's really helpful.

                                  What I suspect is happening is that your bed heater has a high thermal mass (e.g. aluminium plate) and the thermistor is embedded in the heater, not in good contact with the plate. Does that describe your bed heater? This makes the long-term heating behaviour very different from the short-term behaviour. The current tuning algorithm measures the short term behaviour, because that is what is required for computing suitable PID parameters.

                                  Please can you do a video of the heater being tuned, so that I can see the complete temperature graph during the tuning process.

                                  As a workaround until I have a solution, if you reduce the R parameter in the M307 command by 30%, that should be sufficient to avoid getting heater faults.

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                  dc42undefined hestiahuangundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • dc42undefined
                                    dc42 administrators @dc42
                                    last edited by

                                    @siam @hestiahuang please try the firmware build at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5ubjszy9fmlvzwu/AAAeOMGP-Yi-Gn9LZwQoPfita?dl=0.

                                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                    Gixxerfastundefined SIamundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • Gixxerfastundefined
                                      Gixxerfast @dc42
                                      last edited by

                                      @dc42 I wasn't addressed but I tried it anyway since I was having problems but with this version it heated up without any errors. Absolutely perfect. Before, with b7 I would have had three errors before reaching target temp. Thanks!

                                      50f0e705-761f-47c6-8135-88117ec0891b-image.png

                                      Voron V2.4 (#1317) with Duet 3 Mini5+ Wifi and 1LC v1.1 Toolboard
                                      Voron V0.1 (#637) with Duet 3 Mini 5+ Wifi and 1LC v1.2 Toolboard
                                      Ender 3 Pro with BTT SKR-2 + RRF

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • NikAundefined
                                        NikA
                                        last edited by

                                        I also have this problem and noticed that the difference is double (or half) of what is expected.
                                        tuning again and again did not change much, but it looks like you're already fixing the problem 🙂

                                        I have a suggestion: could you add a feature that makes it possible to zoom in on the temperature chart (as in temporarily increase the window size or open in a new window)?
                                        The way it currently is makes it impossible to see small changes, but I would be interested in seeing them.
                                        I think it would make it possible to see changes when feeding too fast or having air flow etc

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • SIamundefined
                                          SIam @dc42
                                          last edited by

                                          @dc42 I have tested the new firmware, thanks for this! Now the PID-Tuning takes a long time (over a half hour) and after this I get now a warning;

                                          pidwarning.png

                                          If I use this PID settings to heat up my bed, I still get the heater fault
                                          Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising too slowly: expected 0.34°C/sec measured 0.11°C/sec

                                          I have recorded the PID Tuning and you can view this long video under:

                                          https://kleinersonnenschein.eu/video/pidtuning_3.4.b7+1.mp4

                                          I hope this will help you when you need more tests then let me know

                                          But first I wish you and the whole great duet team a merry Christmas, thanks for your hard work!

                                          Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
                                          Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
                                          RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
                                          Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
                                          Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

                                          Phaedruxundefined SIamundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • Phaedruxundefined
                                            Phaedrux Moderator @SIam
                                            last edited by

                                            @siam Perhaps I've asked this before in another thread, but can you show/describe what your bed assembly is like?

                                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                                            SIamundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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