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    Extruder motor stops during print…

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    • dc42undefined
      dc42 administrators
      last edited by

      Does extrusion stop at the same point in the print each time?

      The stepper drivers on the Duet can in theory detect when a motor wire is disconnected, but in practice we found it gave false positives, so I disabled that facility. If I can find a way to filter out the false positives, I will enable it again.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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      • ofloveandhateundefined
        ofloveandhate
        last edited by

        another thought i had – maybe i should put a fan on the duet? is the board overheating?

        https://www.duet3d.com/wiki/Connecting_and_configuring_fans

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        • ofloveandhateundefined
          ofloveandhate
          last edited by

          no, it is not the same point every time.

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          • ofloveandhateundefined
            ofloveandhate
            last edited by

            here's a snippet of what my gcode looks like:

            G1 X-9.773 Y20.202 E0.0240
            G1 X-8.049 Y19.083 E0.0845
            G1 X-7.228 Y18.592 E0.0393
            G1 X-5.829 Y17.806 E0.0660
            G1 X-2.005 Y15.805 E0.1774
            G1 X-1.749 Y15.664 E0.0120
            G1 X-0.741 Y15.031 E0.0489
            G1 X-0.182 Y14.575 E0.0297
            G1 X0.225 Y14.087 E0.0261
            G1 X0.746 Y12.742 E0.0593
            G1 X0.847 Y12.526 E0.0098
            G1 X0.864 Y12.365 E0.0066
            G1 X0.745 Y10.941 E0.0588
            G1 X0.342 Y9.133 E0.0761
            G1 X-0.212 Y7.194 E0.0829
            G1 X-1.216 Y3.878 E0.1424
            G1 X-1.686 Y2.198 E0.0717
            G1 X-1.997 Y1.061 E0.0484
            G1 X-2.338 Y-0.306 E0.0579
            G1 X-2.657 Y-1.687 E0.0582
            G1 X-3.138 Y-4.143 E0.1029
            G1 X-3.300 Y-5.092 E0.0396
            G1 X-3.519 Y-6.570 E0.0614
            G1 X-3.767 Y-8.725 E0.0892
            G1 X-3.921 Y-10.510 E0.0736
            G1 X-4.038 Y-12.900 E0.0984
            G1 X-4.060 Y-14.016 E0.0459
            G1 X-4.047 Y-16.295 E0.0937
            G1 X-3.986 Y-17.935 E0.0674
            G1 X-3.894 Y-19.398 E0.0602
            G1 X-3.771 Y-20.858 E0.0602
            
            

            so it is a sequence of short extrusion moves the whole file. no long linear extrudes, just this.

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            • ofloveandhateundefined
              ofloveandhate
              last edited by

              here are my four attempts at 'seepferdchen'

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              • ofloveandhateundefined
                ofloveandhate
                last edited by

                another thought: should i prefer absolute or relative extrusions? i have only been using relative through this whole process.

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                • ofloveandhateundefined
                  ofloveandhate
                  last edited by

                  i am starting to think there is a bug in the reprap firmware, in the part that processes relative extrusion distances. i printed the same model, same supports and all settings, last night. only change was that in simplify3d, i switched to absolute extrusion.

                  ok, there was another difference that i should have not let happen, and that was that i printed this one without the https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2567240 bottom corner plates.

                  i am re-printing the same file now. if it fails again, then we know that the relative / absolute distances had nothing to do with my problem. if it succeeds, we have stronger evidence that it is a firmware bug.

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                  • ofloveandhateundefined
                    ofloveandhate
                    last edited by

                    i am now convinced that there is a bug in the firmware dealing with relative extruder distances

                    another success with absolute extruder distances, print time was 36h 21m

                    video:
                    https://youtu.be/7BCaq2k_oJk

                    pic:

                    a little problem at the top. caused due to top layers being set to 0 for that process in simplify3d. (6 processes used total, to reduce the amount of plastic used by varying the infill %)

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                    • dc42undefined
                      dc42 administrators
                      last edited by

                      Most Duet users - including me - only ever use relative extrusion distances.

                      Did you turn off "Allow zeroing of extrusion distance" in S3D? You should do that when using relative extrusion, although AFAIK it doesn't matter if you leave it enabled.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                      • ofloveandhateundefined
                        ofloveandhate
                        last edited by

                        zeroing was indeed allowed in s3d, both in my relative and absolute prints.

                        brad at ultibots indicated that he thinks people mostly use absolute, where you think it is relative…

                        i have > 70 hours of absolute distance printing with no errors now, so am growing in confidence that i was experiencing something problematic with relative. i think some stress-test kinds of gcode files are merited. i was thinking that cylindrical circles or ellipses with ever-smaller faces might be useful, and mix in the zeroing.

                        are there known smallest distances that the extruder should be asked to perform? i read the code in the reprap firmware, and nothing immediately jumped out at me as risking underflow or rounding error. i was however concerned in GCodes.cpp at lines 2044 or so,

                        const float moveArg = eMovement[0] * distanceScale;
                        float requestedExtrusionAmount;
                        if (gb.MachineState().drivesRelative)
                        {
                          requestedExtrusionAmount = moveArg;
                        }
                        else
                        {
                          requestedExtrusionAmount = moveArg - virtualExtruderPosition;
                          virtualExtruderPosition = moveArg;
                        }
                        
                        

                        that in one case, the value of virtualExtruderPosition is adjusted, and not in the other. is it assumed to be always 0 if relative? where is it adjusted?

                        i just want to know exactly how to manifest this problem, as i am not content with absolute distances as a workaround.

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                        • garyd9undefined
                          garyd9
                          last edited by

                          Taking a WAG based solely on the code you posted:

                          If doing relative extrusion, the "virtualExtruderPosition" variable is meaningless (simply because it's not needed: It's a variable only used to calculate requestedExtrusionAmount if and only if absolute extrusions.)

                          If relative, then the value of "E" is the amount that is extruded in this step.

                          If absolute, then the value of "E" (moveArg) is the amount that is extruded in this step and all the previous steps combined. So, in order to know how much THIS step extrudes (requestedExtrusionAmount), you have to subtract "all the previous steps combined" (virtualExtruderPosition) from moveArg. At that point, "all the previous steps combined" (virtualExtruderPosition) needs to be updated to reflect the added amount THIS step extrudes (requestedExtrusionAmount.)

                          That could be written any of the following ways, and all would be accurate:

                          virtualExtruderPosition = virtualExtruderPosition + requestedExtrusionAmount;

                          virtualExtruderPosition += requestedExtrusionAmount;

                          virtualExtruderPosition = moveArg; // because moveArg == (virtualExtruderPosition + requestedExtrusionAmount)

                          "I'm not saying that you are wrong - I'm just trying to fit it into my real world simulated experience."

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                          • ofloveandhateundefined
                            ofloveandhate
                            last edited by

                            gotcha.

                            do you have references to any other places people have had problems with relative extrusion and zeroing on?

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                            • ofloveandhateundefined
                              ofloveandhate
                              last edited by

                              the drama continues.

                              i printed a surface called "tobel", and it failed, even with absolute extruder distances. we can rule out relative as the culprit.

                              added a heatbreak out of lexan, with a fan blowing directly across the duet.

                              the print still failed.

                              here is what it is supposed to look like:

                              i think we can rule out heat as the source of the problem. because the two prints failed at such a similar place, i am hopeful that i can develop a short gcode file that fails every time i run it. then, hopefully, someone else can also try it, and fail.

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                              • ofloveandhateundefined
                                ofloveandhate
                                last edited by

                                my journey continues. i have re-wired the extruder motor, used a heat shield and fan to cool the duet board, and played with various slicer settings. nothing has worked – i continue to experience failures.

                                is there an alternate firmware i can load on the board?

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                                • whosrdaddyundefined
                                  whosrdaddy
                                  last edited by

                                  Think about it, if this was a "firmware bug", this forum would be swamped with threads similar as yours, but it isn't ;).
                                  Having read your thread @ultibots, I think you are having ordinary nozzle jams.
                                  You use 185 deg, which seems to me a bit on the cold side, I use 205 for my PLA prints and never had any issue.

                                  Can you share the STL for above model? I Can do a test print if you want…

                                  Cheers,
                                  Kris

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                                  • ofloveandhateundefined
                                    ofloveandhate
                                    last edited by

                                    the absence of other bug reports is not evidence of no problem. to the contrary, my persistent problem is evidence of a problem. its not conclusive, i agree, but this problem has happened to me at least 19 times, and has persisted despite nearly 3 months of publicly documented problem-solving efforts, including swapping motors, re-wiring, heat shielding and actively cooling the duet, swapping duet boards, upgrading firmware, and twiddling nearly all possible slicer options (which shouldn't matter anyway because no gcode should do this).

                                    what is left? power supply / fluctuations, too low a temp, a firmware bug, some machine setting like acceleration or max speeds (again pointing to a firmware bug), or ??? i appreciate you helping me explore the remaining options, because i am about out of ideas.

                                    i do agree that few people with the problem makes it harder to tell whether this is indeed a firmware bug. but i point you to the famous case of the intel floating point arithmetic bug: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug . "1 in 9 billion floating point divides with random parameters would produce inaccurate results." to put it succinctly,

                                    absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

                                    furthermore, another d300vs user commented in my thread on the ultibots forum that they experienced a very similar problem. so, i am not alone in experiencing this problem. was their problem mine? we'll likely never know…

                                    sure, i'll try a higher temp. i must try everything, because 1) right now, i can only print trinkets on my machine, 2) i am a scientist and mathematician so i have to know what the solution is, and 3) i genuinely hope that it is not a firmware bug, but instead a simple matter of my temperature being too low. we'll see...

                                    here is a link to a folder of gcode files, all of which have failed for me at least once. they are set up for 1.75mm filament with a 0.4mm diameter tip on a delta bot with the origin at the center. if i can get even one other person to run my gcode, it'll do a long way to helping rule out a firmware bug. repeated success on anothes duet?
                                    my problem. another person gets a fail? clearly not my fault, points to firmware. another strong piece of evidence would be what happens if i use another firmware, so looking to install something else and give it a try.

                                    http://danibrake.org/gcode/failing/

                                    the 40% file takes like 5 hours, and i have had it fail on me 3/13 times. the 60% takes like 14 hours, and has failed 1/1 times. the 100% takes even longer, and has failed 4/4 attempts. if you want a sure fail, try the 100. the model is also posted to the same location.

                                    • http://danibrake.org/gcode/failing/tobel.3mf

                                    • http://danibrake.org/gcode/failing/tobel_small_40.gcode

                                    • http://danibrake.org/gcode/failing/tobel_small_60_norobust.gcode

                                    • http://danibrake.org/gcode/failing/tobel_100.gcode

                                    i am still on firmware 1.20, per forum recommendation. here is my config file:

                                    ; Configuration file for UltiBots D300 V-Slot Delta 3D Printer
                                    ; version 1.0 for RepRapFirmware version 1.18.1
                                    
                                    ; Communication and general
                                    M111 S0                             	; Debug off
                                    M550 PD300VS				; Machine name and Netbios name (can be anything you like)
                                    M551 XXXXX				; Machine password (used for FTP)
                                    ; *** If you have more than one Duet on your network, they must all have different MAC addresses, so change the last digits
                                    M540 P0xBE:0xEF:0xDE:0xAD:0xFE:0xFF 	; MAC Address
                                    ; Wifi Networking
                                    M552 S1					; Enable Wifi by default
                                    
                                    M555 P2                           	; Set output to look like Marlin
                                    
                                    ; *** Uncomment if you have the optional PanelDue display
                                    ;M575 P1 B57600 S1			; Communication parameters for the PanelDue
                                    
                                    G21                                 	; Work in millimeters 
                                    G90                                	; Send absolute positional coordinates...
                                    M83                                 	; ...but relative extruder moves
                                    
                                    ; Axis and motor configuration
                                    M569 P0 S0				; Drive 0 goes forwards (X tower)
                                    M569 P1 S0				; Drive 1 goes forwards (Y tower)
                                    M569 P2 S0				; Drive 2 goes forwards (Z tower)
                                    M569 P3 S1				; Drive 3 goes forwards (extruder 1)
                                    
                                    M574 X2 Y2 Z2 S1			; Set endstop configuration (all endstops at high end, active high)
                                    
                                    ; *** The homed height is deliberately set too high in the following - these will be adjusted with delta auto-calibration
                                    M665 R216.411 L379.00 B140 H434.314 X0.101 Y0.295 Z0.0	; Set delta radius, diagonal rod length, printable radius and homed height
                                    ;H461.071
                                    M666 X1.79 Y0.20 Z-1.99			; Endstop offset adjustments, these will be adjusted with delta auto-calibration
                                    
                                    M350 X64 Y64 Z64 E16 I1			; Set microstepping to 32 for X, Y and Z and 16 for extruder stepper with interpolation
                                    M92 X800 Y800 Z800			; Set axis steps/mm
                                    M906 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E400		; Set motor currents (mA)
                                    M201 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E1000		; Accelerations (mm/s^2)
                                    M203 X20000 Y20000 Z8000 E20000	; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                    M566 X400 Y400 Z400 E400		; Maximum instant speed changes mm/minute
                                    
                                    ; Fans
                                    M106 P1 T50 S255 H1			; Set hotend heatsink FAN1 thermostatic control at 50°C
                                    
                                    ; Thermistors
                                    M305 P0 T100000 B3950 R4700 L54 H-97	; Kapton bed heater thermistor
                                    M305 P1 R4700 T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8	; E3D V6 Semitec GT-104 thermistor cartridge
                                    
                                    ; Heater configuration
                                    M307 H0 B1							; Heater 0 (bed) use bang-bang control		
                                    M307 H1 A512.9 C267.0 D9.0 B0		; Heater 1 (hot end) use PID
                                    
                                    ; Tool definitions
                                    M563 P0 D0 H1                       	; Define tool 0, the extruder
                                    G10 P0 S0 R0                        	; Set tool 0 operating and standby temperatures
                                    M92 E700	                       	; Set extruder steps per mm
                                    
                                    ; Z probe and compensation definition
                                    ; Change "H25" to "H3" AFTER commissioning your printer
                                    M558 P4 X0 Y0 Z0 H5 I1 			; FSRs with JohnSL board Z probe behaves as a switch and is not used for homing any axes
                                    G31 X0 Y0 Z-0.2 P500			; MUST READ: http://www.sublimelayers.com/2017/05/fdffsd.html
                                    
                                    T0					; Select tool 0, the hot end
                                    M501					; Load config-override.g
                                    
                                    

                                    thanks for helping me, i genuinely appreciate your time

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                                    • whosrdaddyundefined
                                      whosrdaddy
                                      last edited by

                                      May I ask why the steps for the extruder (M92) are missing?
                                      Also the M92 I1 parameter is a bit pointless as it only works for 16x microstepping…

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                                      • dc42undefined
                                        dc42 administrators
                                        last edited by

                                        @whosrdaddy:

                                        May I ask why the steps for the extruder (M92) are missing?
                                        Also the M92 I1 parameter is a bit pointless as it only works for 16x microstepping…

                                        He has a separate M92 E700 command later in config.g. The I1 parameter on the M350 command will work for the E drives because they are set to x16 microstepping.

                                        But you have contributed many useful replies on this forum, so please don't let this stop you from contributing! I make mistakes in replies too.

                                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                        • ofloveandhateundefined
                                          ofloveandhate
                                          last edited by

                                          @dc42 my pronouns are she/her/hers, please

                                          here is the current default config.g from https://github.com/UltiBots/D300VS/blob/master/Firmware/171016-D300VS-1.19.2.zip. please confirm it contains the same error. i believe it does.

                                          ; Configuration file for UltiBots D300VS Delta 3D Printer
                                          ; version 1.0 for RepRapFirmware version 1.19.2
                                          
                                          ; Communication and general
                                          M111 S0                             	; Debug off
                                          M550 PD300VS				; Machine name and Netbios name (can be anything you like)
                                          M551 XXXXX				; Machine password (used for FTP)
                                          ; *** If you have more than one Duet on your network, they must all have different MAC addresses, so change the last digits
                                          M540 P0xBE:0xEF:0xDE:0xAD:0xFE:0xEF 	; MAC Address
                                          ; Wifi Networking
                                          ; M552 S1					; Enable Wifi by default
                                          
                                          M555 P2                           	; Set output to look like Marlin
                                          
                                          ; *** Uncomment if you have the optional PanelDue display
                                          ;M575 P1 B57600 S1			; Communication parameters for the PanelDue
                                          
                                          G21                                 	; Work in millimeters 
                                          G90                                	; Send absolute positional coordinates...
                                          M83                                 	; ...but relative extruder moves
                                          
                                          ; Axis and motor configuration
                                          M569 P0 S0				; Drive 0 goes forwards (X tower)
                                          M569 P1 S0				; Drive 1 goes forwards (Y tower)
                                          M569 P2 S0				; Drive 2 goes forwards (Z tower)
                                          M569 P3 S1				; Drive 3 goes forwards (extruder 1)
                                          
                                          M574 X2 Y2 Z2 S1			; Set endstop configuration (all endstops at high end, active high)
                                          
                                          ; *** The homed height is deliberately set too high in the following - these will be adjusted with delta auto-calibration
                                          M665 R211.75 L360.31 B140 H445.00 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0	; Set delta radius, diagonal rod length, printable radius and homed height
                                          M666 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0			; Endstop offset adjustments, these will be adjusted with delta auto-calibration
                                          
                                          M350 X64 Y64 Z64 E16 I1			; Set microstepping to 32 for X, Y and Z and 16 for extruder stepper with interpolation
                                          M92 X800 Y800 Z800			; Set axis steps/mm
                                          M906 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E500		; Set motor currents (mA)
                                          M201 X1000 Y1000 Z1000 E1000		; Accelerations (mm/s^2)
                                          M203 X20000 Y20000 Z20000 E3600		; Maximum speeds (mm/min)
                                          M566 X1200 Y1200 Z1200 E300		; Maximum instant speed changes mm/minute
                                          
                                          ; Fans
                                          M106 P1 T50 S255 H1			; Set hotend heatsink FAN1 thermostatic control at 50°C
                                          
                                          ; Thermistors
                                          M305 P0 T100000 B3950 R4700 L54 H-97	; Kapton bed heater thermistor
                                          M305 P1 R4700 T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8	; E3D V6 Semitec GT-104 thermistor cartridge
                                          
                                          ; Heater configuration
                                          M307 H0 B1							; Heater 0 (bed) use bang-bang control		
                                          M307 H1 A512.9 C267.0 D9.0 B0		; Heater 1 (hot end) use PID
                                          
                                          ; Tool definitions
                                          M563 P0 D0 H1                       	; Define tool 0, the extruder
                                          G10 P0 S0 R0                        	; Set tool 0 operating and standby temperatures
                                          M92 E780	                       	; Set extruder steps per mm
                                          
                                          ; Z probe and compensation definition
                                          ; Change "H25" to "H3" AFTER commissioning your printer
                                          M558 P4 X0 Y0 Z0 H25 I1 		; FSRs with JohnSL board Z probe behaves as a switch and is not used for homing any axes
                                          G31 X0 Y0 Z-0.25 P500			; MUST READ: http://www.sublimelayers.com/2017/05/fdffsd.html
                                          
                                          T0					; Select tool 0, the hot end
                                          M501					; Load config-override.g
                                          
                                          
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                                          • ofloveandhateundefined
                                            ofloveandhate
                                            last edited by

                                            upping the temp by 25° to 210 still yielded a failure last night.

                                            a big lingering question i have – if my browser disconnects from the printer while printing, is the gcode console still guaranteed to log correctly? that is, how do i know that i am not experiencing some other error, and simply not seeing it in the log the next time i connect?

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