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Movement above 50 mm/s loud

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  • undefined
    dc42 administrators
    last edited by dc42 29 Oct 2018, 07:20

    Have you tried using higher microstepping?

    Please post your config.g file.

    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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    • undefined
      hevilp
      last edited by 29 Oct 2018, 07:26

      I will post my config.g in the evening, I'm using 128 microsteps atm.

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      • undefined
        dc42 administrators @hevilp
        last edited by 29 Oct 2018, 07:49

        @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

        To be clear, the Belt is not installed. The motor is mounted and only the pulley is on the Motor, so it cannot be a resonance. The Sound of the turning motors is loud, when only 1 is running.

        Actually it can still be resonance, because the elasticity of the magnetic field and the rotor inertia of the motor combined to give a resonance. If you can tell me the rotor inertia, rated current, holding torque, step angle and actual current for your motor then I can work it out.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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        • undefined
          hevilp
          last edited by hevilp 29 Oct 2018, 08:39

          @dc42 said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

          Actually it can still be resonance, because the elasticity of the magnetic field and the rotor inertia of the motor combined to give a resonance. If you can tell me the rotor inertia, rated current, holding torque, step angle and actual current for your motor then I can work it out.

          It should be all in the datasheet:

          https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/download/17HS19-2004S1.pdf

          But I have to say, I used other motors before, where the printer was loud, too.
          I have to check them running, without the belts, too.

          I changed the motors yesterday but the test without the belt I only did on the motors from stepper online.

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          • undefined
            dc42 administrators
            last edited by 29 Oct 2018, 14:35

            For a 200-step stepper motor with holding torque H, the spring constant (in Nm/radian) at full rated current is 25 * H/pi which for that motor is 25 * 0.59/pi = 4.7Nm/radian. The rotor inertia is 83 gcm^2 which is 83e-7 kgm^2. So the resonant frequency is f = (1/(2p)) * sqrt(k/I) = sqrt(4.7/83e-7)/(2pi) = 120Hz.

            In practice it will be lower than this, because we rarely run the motors at peak rated current and because holding torque is normally specified with both phases energised rather than one. This means that the motor will be ;less stiff than 4.7Nm/radian. So I would expect the resonant frequency to be about 75-100Hz, if I have got the above calculations right

            If the motor is well-made then the primary reason that the resonance will be excited should be be because not all microsteps are equal (how unequal they are depends on the design of the motor). So the worst speed will be when the frequency of full steps matches the resonant frequency. You haven't told us your steps/mm, but as an example if you have 80 steps/mm @ x16 microstepping, that's 5 full steps/mm, so a resonance at 80Hz would be excited at a movement speed of (80/5) = 18mm/sec.

            OTOH if the main cause of the resonance is that the poles of the motor are inaccurate, or the stepper motor coils are not balanced, then the resonance will be excited by movements of four full steps, which would make the worst speed about 64mm/sec.

            How noisy is the motor at 80 to 100 mm/sec speed?

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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            • undefined
              hevilp
              last edited by 29 Oct 2018, 15:32

              ; Drives
              M569 P0 S0 ; Drive 0 -> X goes backwards
              M569 P1 S0 ; Drive 1 -> Y goes backwards
              M569 P2 S1 ; Drive 2 -> Z goes backwards
              M569 P3 S0 ; Drive 3 -> E0 goes forwards
              M569 P4 S0 ; Drive 4 -> E1 goes forwards
              M350 X256 Y256 Z256 E256 I0 S1 ; Configure microstepping with interpolation
              M92 X1280 Y1280 Z25600 E13045 ; Set steps per mm
              M566 X900 Y900 Z12 E600 ; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
              M203 X18000 Y18000 Z300 E6000 ; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
              M201 X3000 Y3000 Z250 E600 ; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
              M204 P500 T3000
              M906 X600 Y600 Z600 E700 I30 ; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
              M84 S120 ; Set idle timeout

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              • undefined
                hevilp
                last edited by 29 Oct 2018, 15:39

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdYzRrFHQts

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP8tJOAL6FM

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAPBxa4VE

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLi-jRb4IOE

                1000, 3000, 6000 and 12000 mm/s, I dunno the order ^^

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                • undefined
                  SupraGuy @hevilp
                  last edited by SupraGuy 29 Oct 2018, 21:01

                  I can't really see from the video, but is that a corexy configuration? This would explain why only one motor moves for a 45 degree diagonal at least, but then both motors should move for straight X or Y movement.

                  It would certainly be worth checking that you are getting both sets of coils energized on your motors, and that your wire colours are consistent. Do you have a multimeter that can measure inductance?

                  Edit:

                  just saw, 1280 steps/mm? I suppose that you can do that with 256X microstepping, but is that actually called for? I'd be tempted to see if "The road greater travelled" IE: set microstepping to 16X (With 256X interpolation) and 80steps/mm was quieter.

                  Lead screw driven printer, powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                  MPCNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                  CoreXY printer driven by Duet 3 6HC
                  LowRider CNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi

                  undefined 1 Reply Last reply 30 Oct 2018, 06:28 Reply Quote 0
                  • undefined
                    hevilp @SupraGuy
                    last edited by 30 Oct 2018, 06:28

                    @supraguy I will try 16 Microsteps with Interpolation.

                    Why the color of the spools need to be consistent?
                    I thought it is just enough to have the right pairs, it isnt?

                    undefined 1 Reply Last reply 30 Oct 2018, 12:20 Reply Quote 0
                    • undefined
                      dc42 administrators @hevilp
                      last edited by 30 Oct 2018, 12:20

                      @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

                      I thought it is just enough to have the right pairs, it isnt?

                      Yes you just need the right pairs.

                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                      • undefined
                        SupraGuy
                        last edited by 30 Oct 2018, 16:58

                        Yes, you just need the right pairs, so I did mean to make sure that they're in the same order at both connectors.

                        Your motors have 6 wire connectors, and you should have wires at pins 1, 3, 4, and 6. They should go to the 4 wire motor connector on the Duet in the same order.

                        Lead screw driven printer, powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                        MPCNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                        CoreXY printer driven by Duet 3 6HC
                        LowRider CNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi

                        undefined 1 Reply Last reply 31 Oct 2018, 10:42 Reply Quote 0
                        • undefined
                          dc42 administrators @SupraGuy
                          last edited by 31 Oct 2018, 10:42

                          @supraguy said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

                          Your motors have 6 wire connectors, and you should have wires at pins 1, 3, 4, and 6. They should go to the 4 wire motor connector on the Duet in the same order.

                          Unfortunately there are at least 2 different wiring schemes for motors with 6-pin JST connectors on them, so the above isn't necessarily correct.

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                          • undefined
                            SupraGuy
                            last edited by 31 Oct 2018, 14:47

                            I'll keep that in mind. I have only encountered the 6 wire connectors that work as I described. Thanks!

                            Lead screw driven printer, powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                            MPCNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi
                            CoreXY printer driven by Duet 3 6HC
                            LowRider CNC powered by Duet 2 Wifi

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                            • undefined
                              dc42 administrators
                              last edited by 31 Oct 2018, 15:19

                              The other pinout I have come across is 1-4, 3-6. All 4 motors on my Ormerod use this pinout.

                              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                              • undefined
                                hevilp
                                last edited by 31 Oct 2018, 17:52

                                I'm right, when I say, the motor is turning right, I connected all right?

                                undefined 1 Reply Last reply 31 Oct 2018, 22:22 Reply Quote 0
                                • undefined
                                  dc42 administrators @hevilp
                                  last edited by 31 Oct 2018, 22:22

                                  @hevilp said in Movement above 50 mm/s loud:

                                  I'm right, when I say, the motor is turning right, I connected all right?

                                  If you are able to move the motor in a controlled way in both directions, then you have connected it correctly.

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                  • undefined
                                    hevilp
                                    last edited by 1 Nov 2018, 15:50

                                    Okay,

                                    its fine than. I think its nothing with the duet. Speeds above 50 mm/s does stutter, rattle, shaking on the X-axe - carriage and I'm not able to figure it out. It was with rods and now with linear rails, too.

                                    On the video you cannot real hear how loud it is, anyway:
                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id_A0d7HXlw

                                    Just not usable above 50 mm/s, I'm happy with any help here, the printer is jsut garbage with the sounds.

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