Delta upgrade to print Ultem 1000 and Peek

dc42

First of all you will need to use a hot end that can reach 400C and a temperature sensor that can measure it. I think the copper heatsink blocks made by E3D and some of the nozzles they offer are rated to 400C and higher. They also sell high temperature heater cartridges rated to 500C, see https://e3d-online.com/high-temperature-heater-cartridges. Their PT100 sensors are rated to 400C. They also sell thermocouple cartridges (https://e3d-online.com/type-k-thermocouple-cartridge) but they don't specify a temperature rating - best ask them.

Duets can read PT100 and thermocouple sensors if you buy the appropriate daughter board. PT100 sensors are a little easier to work with than thermistors, because thermistor wires pick up interference more easily and because you need to run the wires all the way back to the daughter board on the Duet.

I don't know what bed temperatures you need for printing PEI and Peek, but I imagine it's well over 100C. So your best bet is probably an AC mains powered silicone bed heater controlled by a zero-crossing DC-AC SSR.

You will obviously need a heated chamber, and I'm guessing that the temperature will be high, in which case you will need to keep all electronic components and the stepper motors outside the chamber. Also note that standard GT2 belts are only rated to 80C or 85C. You may need to use a water cooled hot end and Berd-Air style print cooling fan (if you need a print cooling fan) so that the fans/pumps can be kept outside the chamber.

I hope this helps. I know that one of our OEMs has been printing PEEK for more than 2 years in their Duet-controlled machines (not deltas AFAIR).

andornot

Thanks for the info

andornot

@dc42 Would i be able to use a duet 0.6 with a PT100 from e3d online and their PT100 amplifier board as i already have these? I will be building a second machine so i will be ordering the latest duet3d and touch screen. I have been considering for ages moving away from the smootieboard due to poor interface.

DocTrucker

I've been looking at using the standard duet PT100 daughter board with the duet v0.6. You need to make a mount and cable/connectors but it is possible.

Ebay PT boards with the specified max chip are cheaper, but the tend to use a non ideal reference resistor (although dc42 said the firmware can compensate), and the clincher for me is the daughter board will work well with Duet2 when I finally upgrade.

Phaedrux

@andornot said in Delta upgrade to print Ultem 1000 and Peek:

PT100 from e3d online and their PT100 amplifier board

Keep in mind that the E3D amplifier board is not the same thing as the Duet PT100 daughterboard.

DocTrucker

I believe the daughter board and the max chip based boards from ebay are a better choice than the amplifiers.

...I could however be corrected!

andornot

@doctrucker said in Delta upgrade to print Ultem 1000 and Peek:

PT100 daughter board with the duet v0.6

Please can you tell what is the wiring for duet pt100 daughter board to a duet 0.6? I rather buy the proper PT100 board than something from ebay.

dc42

This image https://d17kynu4zpq5hy.cloudfront.net/igi/duet3d/vqBUAZPsxMC5tRgt.huge gives the pinout of the temperature daughter board on the Duet WiFi. So that is the pinout of the PT100 daughter board host connector, viewed from the top of the daughter board. You can tie up the signal names in that diagram with the table at https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Connecting_PT100_temperature_sensors#Section_Duet_0_6_or_0_8_Num_5 for the Duet 0.6.

sonderzug

Hi,

from my own experience in high-temperature printing I can tell that the sensors sold by E3D don't hold up to temperatures of 350-400 °C for very long. I used their PT100 sensors in connection to the matching Duet daughterboard, and sooner or later the thin fiberglass sleeving around the copper leads would break close to the cartridge, as well as the ceramic mass inside the cartridge getting brittle and causing shorts to the heater block.
I ordered PT100 cartridge sensors from a german shop which have a metal sleeving around the cores (although it doesn't say so in the description), which I also use as a shield by grounding it to the frame of the printer. Never looked back.

I can't speak for E3D's heater cartridges though, they look sturdy and have an official temperature rating (as opposed to the older sensor cartridges) so I would trust them to do the job.

Note that all of the components need to hold up to an increased chamber temperature though, as David mentioned.

Best regards, Niklas

andornot

@dc42 Thanks for the answer, i will order one now.

Phaedrux

@sonderzug said in Delta upgrade to print Ultem 1000 and Peek:

I can tell that the sensors sold by E3D don't hold up to temperatures of 350-400 °C for very long.

I've had an E3D PT100 fail after many many hours of printing at 250c doing PETG. The sleeve over the wires at the cartridge end started to fray and shrink back and eventually I think it shorted out or burnt out in the cartridge. So I can totally see how high temps could fry them.