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    Spurious heater faults and how to avoid them

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    Tuning and tweaking
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    • Merlinundefined
      Merlin
      last edited by

      In the Web inrterface 'Paused' the printer and set Heater 1 to 0 deg C. while i was out.
      On 'Resume' rest Heater 1 temp but forgot to turn down printer Fan so caused a heater 'error'
      "heater temp rising to slowly"!
      So tried to reset heater with M562 H1 as per the notes - no apparent result.
      So checked RepRap Wiki on g-codes which gave syntax as Pn not Hn
      So tried M562 P1 - still no apparent result.
      but then noticed in Web interface that Heater 1 was 'inactive'
      So tried T0 and then all was well.
      Whatever the M562 correct syntax is it looks like Hot End then has to be re-selected!?

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      • dc42undefined
        dc42 administrators
        last edited by

        Yes the heater is turned off when a heater fault occurs so you will need to send a command that turns it on again after resetting it with M562 P1.

        I plan to do the hot end heater tuning with the fan both off and on at some point.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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        • iDeveloundefined
          iDevelo
          last edited by

          This stuff will help a lot:

          https://www.fasttech.com/products/1040/10023411/5061400-heating-block-nozzle-insulation-cotton-for-3d

          Costs next to nothing but will save you all the headaches especially when layer fans turn on.

          I'd advise it on a volcano style block.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • curieosundefined
            curieos
            last edited by

            I've been having faults during prints. Its all sporadic, but the time I saw the error it was an excursion error that said the temp changed by more than 10C. I just changed my config.g file to allow up to 20c change and I wrapped my heater block in kapton (I have no other forms of insulation).

            I was using an E3D hotend in my Kraken for a while and I recently switched to one of my volcanoes. I'm still not sure why, but I had 0 issues with the E3D. Some differences I noticed are the silicone sock I made for the E3D block, and theres a recent issue with my water cooling setup leaking, but I changed the tubes this morning and it still had the problem. I'm hoping its just an issue with when the AC in my apartment kicks on and that this kapton will fix it (I also added 1/3 of a chamber on the side of my printer to try to eliminate some drafts). I'll post whether this appears to fix my issues or not.

            She/Her
            I work at a local 3D printing shop.
            Printers: Micron+ w/Duet 3 Mini, in-progress adaptation of the Jubilee REL onto an E3D MS, Prusa i3 MK3S.

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            • curieosundefined
              curieos
              last edited by

              Turns out it was just a wiring issue, one of the crimps wasn't properly done.

              She/Her
              I work at a local 3D printing shop.
              Printers: Micron+ w/Duet 3 Mini, in-progress adaptation of the Jubilee REL onto an E3D MS, Prusa i3 MK3S.

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              • Merlinundefined
                Merlin
                last edited by

                For multiple extrusion with a duel Chimera type hot end, the biggest overhead is that,
                on every layer, hot end 1 has to cool down to standby temp, while hot end 2 heats up from standby temp to working temp.
                So the objective is
                a) Have minimum difference between standby and working temp.
                b) Take minimum time for cool down and heat up process.
                Can this be achieved when PID tuning is enabled or would i be better off going back to the 'old' way of working?
                I'm using 24V, 37W heaters
                Thanks

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                • dc42undefined
                  dc42 administrators
                  last edited by

                  @Merlin:

                  For multiple extrusion with a duel Chimera type hot end, the biggest overhead is that,
                  on every layer, hot end 1 has to cool down to standby temp, while hot end 2 heats up from standby temp to working temp.

                  You should not be waiting for the active hot end to cool down to standby temperature, just for the new active nozzle to heat up (which takes less time on most systems). The M116 command has optional parameters specifically so that you can achieve this.

                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                  • T3P3Tonyundefined
                    T3P3Tony administrators
                    last edited by

                    The PID tuning aims to prevent significant overshoot at the expense of approaching the target temperature more slowly than is possible with more aggressive parameters, that said you can modify the parameters to meet your needs. If you are ok starting printing without the temperature stable then you can be more aggressive.

                    When I was experimenting with chimera I found it was the cool down time that limited the tool change speed rather than the warm up but that was ages ago before PID tuning in the Duet. I ended up making holes in the M90 fan duct to blow on both heater blocks so that they cooled down quicker, even though that meant they heated up slower.

                    Cheers

                    Tony

                    Edit, David got there first

                    www.duet3d.com

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                    • Qdeathstarundefined
                      Qdeathstar
                      last edited by

                      When I issue a M562 H1 I am able to clear the fault, but it doesn't seem like the web interface turns on the heater once I set the temp back up.

                      It will show it being set to 230, but the temps act like the heater is off

                      Using v1.16

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                      • dc42undefined
                        dc42 administrators
                        last edited by

                        You need to re-select the tool, e.g. send T0.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                        • Qdeathstarundefined
                          Qdeathstar
                          last edited by

                          Hi. This is should be a simple question and i think i already know the answer. I am printing a very small part and need my fans running at max and when they first come on they knock about 20c off the hot end temp, so i think just for this small part i want to increase the fault delay so i can get the part printed….

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • elmoretundefined
                            elmoret
                            last edited by

                            Best bet is to ramp up the fan speed, do it before the print starts if you absolutely need 100% even on the first layer.

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • deckingmanundefined
                              deckingman
                              last edited by

                              Tuning the heater with the fan fully on may also help.

                              Ian
                              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

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                              • pelle242undefined
                                pelle242
                                last edited by

                                I am seeing theese spurious temperature faults. First I started getting them after installing a fan for printing PLA but limiting the fan speed resolved that.

                                Now I am getting them again when printing nylon at 260C (no fan). I have autotuned the PID regulator to 270C.
                                The resulting PID paramters I am using is M307 H1 A383.6 C190.7 D7 B0. Do theese look sane?

                                The termistor is configured as M305 P1 T100000 B4388 R4700 H0 L0 and is supposed to be a Semitec 104GT2 thermistor from e3d (I am pretty sure it is since I got it from a reutable vendor).

                                I have tried to change the fault time to 20s , M570 H1 P20 T15, but I still get faults and I dont really want to go further.

                                One interesting thing is that it pretty much always happens at the same time. All the failed objects look the same. It is after switching from infill to a printing a top layer. On the other hand I have tried extruding as much as possible and watching the temperature and it does not drop more than 5C ever.

                                Any idea what to try? Do I need a thermocoupler? A better thermistor?

                                All help is greatly appreciated!

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                                • dc42undefined
                                  dc42 administrators
                                  last edited by

                                  That D parameter looks rather high. Try reducing it to 4 or 5. If that results in temperature oscillations, increase it again. Make sure that the fan is directed at the print, not at the heater block. Also, putting a silicone sock over the heater block will help shield it from the fan.

                                  Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                  Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                  http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                  • pelle242undefined
                                    pelle242
                                    last edited by

                                    Thanks for replying. I tried setting D to 4, still get a fault at about the same time. Curve looks stable.
                                    Just to clearify, this is without any fan at the nozzle/heat block. Any other suggestions?

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                                    • dc42undefined
                                      dc42 administrators
                                      last edited by

                                      Have you used M143 to increase the maximum allowed temperature? The default may be too low for Nylon.

                                      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                                      • pelle242undefined
                                        pelle242
                                        last edited by

                                        M143 returns:
                                        Temperature limit for heater 1 is 330.0C

                                        Thats a pretty wide margin.

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                                        • dc42undefined
                                          dc42 administrators
                                          last edited by

                                          When the fault occurs, what is the error message sent to the console?

                                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • pelle242undefined
                                            pelle242
                                            last edited by

                                            I get the "temperature excursion exceeded 15.0C" message.

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