What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3



  • With regards what software to run on a SBC (single board computer) for the upcoming Duet-3

    And for a SBC in this instance I am talking about a Raspberry Pi.

    This is a weird and wonderful topic... and a quite bizarre one too.

    After reading some comments on "ArchLinux" I became interested in seeing what the fuss was about. And while I am mainly a Windows user, Unix was the operating system we used to use for my main time working offshore.

    So I started down the rabbit hole first going to ArchLinux directly and I failed to find an .img file on the Arch site and somewhat puzzled as to why, this lead me to searching for a copy of an .img file from various sources many of which were either downright rude or unhelpful to say the least, this unhelpfulness was somewhat surprising until I started digging further.

    Now there is another site that calls itself "ArchLinuxARM" From trawling some of the forums I eventually found out why ArchLinux (the real guys) removed the .img file from their website, The reason is basically that ArchLinux (quite rightly felt) that the ArchLinuxARM team have their heads up their bottoms and are elitist to the point that they actually said they are only interested in their software being used by "competent Linux users" hence the reason they don’t supply ArchLinuxARM written in a format that allows easy installation, this makes it a huge number of levels more difficult for the non-Linux user to install a copy of the software on a Rpi.

    Being an engineer my ethos is I NEVER EVER give up, and if someone tells me a thing is impossible, my reply is challenge accepted.

    So having struggled and struggled and after trying various methods to install ArchLinux and suffering many many failures I eventually prevailed, to say the result was an anti-climax was an understatement, when compared to a few of the other distro's for the Rpi it’s not all that.

    Long story short for running the Duet control software we want on a Rpi, Raspbian does all we need.



  • I am sure you can run Duet Control on any Linux distro.
    Some people just like more ArchLinuxARM then Raspbian so they is no point making a quarrel what distro should be used. Just use that that you like.
    About installing ArchLinuxARM did you looked at the basic installation guide https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv8/broadcom/raspberry-pi-3 ? This is just some basic copy and paste commands, you only need Linux on you PC (and just agree - developing anything for Linux under Windows is just a silly idea and sucks).
    And for end users when every software for Duet 3 will be stable they should be provided ready to go img for Rassberry Pi



  • @calvinx No doubt @wilriker will step in here but I'm fairly sure that Arch Linux is just his personal preference. Nobody has ever said that it is necessary to use Arch Linux.



  • another important point is beeing up to date.
    the problem with some extra packages for linux distribution is required libraries.
    in linux it happens quickly that a library gets replaced by a different one or one that is not 100% backwards compatible.

    Just because it compiles on ubuntu 18.04 does not mean it would compile or integrate well on 19.04 for example



  • I'm sorry, I probably should have been clearer with naming. Of course I run ArchLinuxARM on my RPis (three of them) and regular Arch Linux on all of my PCs. Usage-wise they are identical and have the same packages. But yes, Arch Linux and ArchLinuxARM are not the same developers. At least that would have saved you from a lot of searching in the wrong places.



  • @dragonn said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    I am sure you can run Duet Control on any Linux distro.
    Some people just like more ArchLinuxARM then Raspbian so they is no point making a quarrel what distro should be used. Just use that that you like.
    About installing ArchLinuxARM did you looked at the basic installation guide https://archlinuxarm.org/platforms/armv8/broadcom/raspberry-pi-3 ? This is just some basic copy and paste commands, you only need Linux on you PC (and just agree - developing anything for Linux under Windows is just a silly idea and sucks).
    And for end users when every software for Duet 3 will be stable they should be provided ready to go img for Rassberry Pi

    You are completely missing the point which is Not about any particular distro at all the main point being to highlight that ease of installation is so important and in this instance to highlight how difficult ArchLinuxARM have purposefully made installation due to elitism to the point that they are no longer welcome by the ArchLinux dev team.

    And the basic guide for ArchLInuxARM actually misses/glosses over a small but significant step (it was this small step that was tripping me up) and one that took me a while to work out what was happening.

    And the other point that this little fiasco highlights is that in the future even with Raspian installed via NOOBS OR PINN it's going to be a steep learning curve for many who are going to stumble at the hurdle of getting the SBC and duet-3 to play nicely with each other, and that will result in many wending their way here after tearing their HAIR out trying to get a SBC to talk to the duet-3 and as is normal they will naturally blame the hardware when the issue is actually P.M.A.C. I forsee this to be a major headache in the coming months

    I personally love to use Linux but in the real world at work we are all window's based and fighting cross platform issues is not cost effective time wise for me.



  • @calvinx I expect a raspian image with Duet software included which is ready to be used.



  • @calvinx TBH, I think you might be jumping the gun a bit. The boards aren't yet available and the Duet team haven't yet got much done in the way of documentation. The reason being that some of the firmware/software/call it what you will, is still being written. I know for a fact that DC is working on a boot loader to enable the expansion boards to be updated via the CAN bus for example.

    So before we start talking about people tearing their hair out and it all being a major headache, let's just wait for the official firmware and the documentation that goes with it. I'm fairly sure the Duet team are aware that they won't sell many boards if customers need to have a degree in computer science to be able to set them up.



  • @deckingman said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    @calvinx TBH, I think you might be jumping the gun a bit. The boards aren't yet available and the Duet team haven't yet got much done in the way of documentation. The reason being that some of the firmware/software/call it what you will, is still being written. I know for a fact that DC is working on a boot loader to enable the expansion boards to be updated via the CAN bus for example.

    So before we start talking about people tearing their hair out and it all being a major headache, let's just wait for the official firmware and the documentation that goes with it. I'm fairly sure the Duet team are aware that they won't sell many boards if customers need to have a degree in computer science to be able to set them up.

    You might be right, I’m happy to be wrong, but SBC's by their very nature unless a fully automated installer package is used then it is going to be a headache for some. As a good % of the users are going to be coming from a windows enviroment. And we are not even talking about the DUET yet, this is a graphic of getting an SBC running.

    And you might call it jumping the gun, I call it being prepared for any eventuality.

    P.P.P.L.T.P.P.P There was never a truer acronym.



  • I think there are enough of us linux software types participating that we can quickly produce images for just about any environment. Once things are a little more firm that is. Basically, "here's an sdcard image...burn it and stick it in the Pi".



  • @gtj0
    I hope you are correct......



  • I would expect it to be as simple as installing an Octopi image on an RPi to get Octoprint running. No sense in making it more difficult than it needs to be (unless you're a linux elitist I guess?)



  • @calvinx said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    @gtj0
    I hope you are correct......

    At the very least I know they'll be a simple sd card image that runs Fedora and the DSF. I know because I just built one 🙂 Building for other distros will be easy as the DSF (at least in its current form) requires almost nothing in the way of special software requirements.

    @phaedrux said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    I would expect it to be as simple as installing an Octopi image on an RPi to get Octoprint running. No sense in making it more difficult than it needs to be (unless you're a linux elitist I guess?)

    Exactly. If you want to do "special" things you can but if not, it should be dead simple for anyone who knows what an SD card is to get working.



  • @calvinx

    Ahh, the good old 6 Ps.

    Just for info, my printer will be on the Duet stand at the TCT show at the NEC in Birmingham from 24th September. Sporting a Duet 3 main board and 3 expansion boards. To be viewed by hundreds if not thousand of visitors.

    As of this moment in time, I do not have one item of Duet Gen 3 hardware apart from an RPi 4 which I've bought myself and which I have not the faintest idea of how it works.

    All I have to do between when I receive the boards and then, is make and fit the cases/mounts, wire up 13 steppers, (7 axes and 6 extruders) plus heaters, fans etc to "show standard", and get to grips with the new configuration and firmware and the RPi. Oh and I'll be on holiday (in Cyprus funnily enough) from 10th to 19th Sept. So no pressure.

    But since my daughter moved out to Australia a few years ago, I've adopted the "ozzy outlook" so all I can say is "she'll be right mate" ☺



  • @deckingman said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    @calvinx

    Ahh, the good old 6 Ps.

    Just for info, my printer will be on the Duet stand at the TCT show at the NEC in Birmingham from 24th September. Sporting a Duet 3 main board and 3 expansion boards. To be viewed by hundreds if not thousand of visitors.

    As of this moment in time, I do not have one item of Duet Gen 3 hardware apart from an RPi 4 which I've bought myself and which I have not the faintest idea of how it works.

    All I have to do between when I receive the boards and then, is make and fit the cases/mounts, wire up 13 steppers, (7 axes and 6 extruders) plus heaters, fans etc to "show standard", and get to grips with the new configuration and firmware and the RPi. Oh and I'll be on holiday (in Cyprus funnily enough) from 10th to 19th Sept. So no pressure.

    But since my daughter moved out to Australia a few years ago, I've adopted the "ozzy outlook" so all I can say is "she'll be right mate" ☺

    Ian

    I am in the same boat mate I should be able to place my order for a 3 at the end of the week already got the pi4 and like you aint got much of a clue with it do need to get the DSF on it mind at the mo I have managed to get Noobs up and working and on the network with the capability to remote into it with VNC and SSH. Just need some easy to follow guide to install the DSF onto it (a guide that assumes absolutely no linux knowledge lol).

    Looking forward to seeing you at TCT again this year!!

    Doug



  • @dougal1957 said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    got the pi4

    i thought only the 3b+ was supported at this stage.



  • @veti said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    @dougal1957 said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    got the pi4

    i thought only the 3b+ was supported at this stage.

    Yes officially it is the 3B+ at this stage. But @wilriker has been using a 4 and I bought one too. BUT, the official support is for a 3B+ and that is what the Duet guys are using.


  • administrators

    Officially it's the 3B+ that we support, however when we launch the Duet 3 next month, I expect we will have an official SD card image for the 4 as well.



  • I have been using DSF with both a Raspberry Pi 3B (no Plus) and a Raspberry Pi 4B without any issues. Therefore the requirement from the initial "only 3B+" was lowered to "3B or newer". Also when it comes to Raspberry Pis (so far) they have a one-image-fits-them-all strategy, i.e. you can use the one and the same SD card for all RPi generations even down to RPi 1 (though probably anything slower than the 3B will not be really usable for DSF, my guess).



  • @calvinx said in What software to run on a SBC "Rpi" for the upcoming Duet-3:

    You are completely missing the point which is Not about any particular distro at all the main point being to highlight that ease of installation is so important and in this instance to highlight how difficult ArchLinuxARM have purposefully made installation due to elitism to the point that they are no longer welcome by the ArchLinux dev team.

    I cannot understand what you mean by purposefully complicating the installation. It is around 10 steps with most of them being copy and paste. Can you please elaborate on what you mean here exactly? I don't want to be offensive I am just curious.

    And the basic guide for ArchLInuxARM actually misses/glosses over a small but significant step (it was this small step that was tripping me up) and one that took me a while to work out what was happening.

    Would you tell me/us which small but significant step you mean?


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