Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX



  • Hi everyone,
    This is my first post here on the forums, therefore I will start by saying „thank you for having me!”.
    I own a Creality CR 10 MAX (which is also my first printer), received back in May this year, and so far I have performed a series of modifications on it. I have modified it quite a bit: converted to DirectDrive using hardware from TriangleLabs, changed the bed to a mirror one, added LED lighting to it, connected an OctoPrint, webcam, etc.
    During my DirectDrive conversion, I used a brand new NEMA 17 1.8 degrees, 25mm pancake motor which I installed and configured with VRef modification, it worked well until the beginning of October, when the motor stopped working.
    Its behavior was pretty weird, it rarely responded to commands sent to it, and when it did, it just made a grinding noise and would not spin at all. I took it out of the DirectDrive mount and tried it outside of the mount, it would spin when a command was sent to it, but would have no spin force (I could stop it by squeezing the shaft between two fingers).
    I believed it became defective, so replaced it with the heavier and more powerful Creality 40-42 motor which was the default Bowden extruder one. It worked was too heavy and but pushed too hard, at some point bending the filament inside the DirectDrive, which required me to disassemble the whole thing. So I bought and installed a new Pancake motor, this time from Bondtech.
    It worked for three weeks.
    Earlier today, i started a print and realize I had forgotten to adjust the first layer height, so canceled the print and resliced the model. Upon attempting to print it again, the extruder motor would not spin. Troubleshooting revealed that it started suffering from the same issue as the previous one.

    TL;DR: my printer chews through extruder pancake motors and I suspect it's something the driver or motherboard does.

    So I am looking at fully replacing the motherboard with a Duet 3. Since I am a beginner in this, only having performed basic modifications so far, I am wondering what should I buy other than the Duet 3. I am looking at a complete solution, that is the motherboard, a nice screen, and whatever else is required. Looking for recommendations, I plan on placing the order in the next few days.

    Thank you in advance for reading my wall of text and for your responses!



  • The duet 3 is probably overkill, the coming duet 3 mini might be a better fit. What are motor specs on the printer?

    As for nice screen, there are split opinions of using the PanelDue or duet + raspberry pi with hdmi screen and DuetWebControl. I'm in favour of the latter, others prefer PanelDue.



  • here is a guide for converting the ender 3 pro, which is close enough to your printer.

    https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Guide/Ender+3+Pro+and+Duet+Maestro+Guide+Part+1:+Wiring/37

    there will be a duet 3 mini soon, which would be perfect for this.

    https://forum.duet3d.com/topic/17409/duet-3-mini-5-initial-announcement
    with this you can use the creality lcd screen
    however for that you have to wait a month or 2.

    its very unusual for stepper motors to die. have you touched the motor while printing? did it get very hot?



  • @bearer I have no problem buying the full Duet, even if it's a bit more expensive. Better overkill than not enough.
    The motors are not really powerful, Creality 42-40 for Z and X axis and a bit more powerful one for the Y axis (bed), I believe it's a 42-68 (not at home right now so can't check right now).
    I already have a Raspberry Pi with Octoprint on it, but I also have spare SD Cards so it won't be difficult to replace the SD and etch another OS flavor on it and repurpose for the Duet. I remember having seen an implementation of Duet 3 with a nice 7" high pixel density touch screen, or I could go large and get something like this. LATER EDIT: ignore the monitor URL, it only has VGA connectivity. I will find something else.

    @Veti except for being made by the same company and the overall external shape, there's almost no similarity between Ender 3 and the CR 10 MAX. I guess I'll have to take it slowly, document and triple check all steps and then create a document specific to the CR 10 MAX - so that others will find it easier to convert 🙂
    As for stepper motors getting hot, no, they didn't. I have an infrared thermometer which I used to check temperatures for bed, hotend, motors, you name it. The extruder motors never got above 45 degrees Celsius during heavy use, e.g. while printing at 120mm/s, usually they were hovering around 40, so pretty cool as far as stepper motors go. That's why I strongly believe the motherboard or breakout card are acting up. Both motors stopped working between prints, oh and one more thing, there is a menu option on my printer as well as GCode commands (M18 and M84) - the commands work for X motor but not for E motor, well, in case of the E motor, sometimes they work, but most times they don't.
    For example, I power on the printer, set hotend temperature (otherwise E motor will not take commands by default), then set G91, send G1 E100 F120 and the E motor does nothing. I set M18 E, motor is disabled, I can turn it by hand. I set M84 E, motor is still disabled, I can turn it by hand. After repeating the G1 E100 F120 command several times, it finally starts grinding with a c-r-r-r-r-r-r noise once, then stops, is disabled, I can still turn it by hand.
    This leads me to believe there is a problem at the electronics side on the printer. Using printer's menu (refill / retract / advance) yields the same result. So yeah, I could say I'm fed up with this and want a Duet 3.

    My original question still stands: would I need anything else to buy, besides the Duet 3 itself?



  • @war4peace said in Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX:

    there's almost no similarity between Ender 3 and the CR 10 MAX

    the basics are the same and the guide will get you started well enough.

    you will need the tools mentioned in the guide.
    the lcd will most likely not work. if you are fine with the web interface, then you can ignore it. otherwise you will need a paneldue.



  • @Veti said in Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX:

    paneldue

    I was thinking of connecting the monitor to the Raspberry Pi, that way I will have local access to it and use a virtual keyboard on the screen. Web interface is fine, I can use it with no issues.
    As for tools, I'm drowning in them, no problem there 🙂



  • then thats all you need. the duet board come with a pack of connectors for recrimping



  • Excellent, thank you. Sorry about insisting on confirmation, I've had occurrences in the past when I had to place one more order for small stuff, like the Aquacomputer High Flow sensor which for some reason came without the special cable which had to be ordered separately. It's never nice to have to do that.



  • @war4peace said in Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX:

    @bearer I have no problem buying the full Duet, even if it's a bit more expensive. Better overkill than not enough.

    Then by all means enjoy the Duet 3 6HC now (the mini is still not released)

    The motors are not really powerful, Creality 42-40 for Z and X axis and a bit more powerful one for the Y axis (bed), I believe it's a 42-68 (not at home right now so can't check right now).

    Again, if the cost isn't a factor it doesn't matter, but sounds like the Duet 2 and Duet 3 mini should work just fine.

    .. a nice 7" high pixel density touch screen ..

    you might not want/need high pixel density for touch interface as it can be tricky to hit small features or operate at arms length?

    As for tools, I'm drowning in them

    the JST VH motor outputs for the Duet 3 are different than the duet 2 and requires a larger crimping die than the Molex KK used on the Duet 2 might want to check if your current tool can crimp the 3.91mm VH as well



  • Good point, I'll make sure I have everything I need. I have a couple multi-size crimping tools, but I'll have to check.



  • Apologies, I have another question.
    Would a Duet 3 Toolboard 1LC be useful for a DirectDrive setup? I am not sure how much weight it would add to the whole setup, but I imagine it wouldn't be much.
    Must admit I enjoy the idea of having just two wires running to the DirectDrive.



  • @war4peace said in Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX:

    Must admit I enjoy the idea of having just two wires running to the DirectDrive.

    4 wires. 2 data and 2 power wires



  • Yes, I meant two pairs, sorry.
    Certainly better than the bundle I have right now 🙂



  • Update: after leaving the printer off and unplugged from power for almost 48 hours, I turned it back on and the extruder motor is working again. This reinforces my suspicion, it's the motherboard or breakout board acting up.

    So yeah, I will go ahead and order the Duet 3.



  • @war4peace said in Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX:

    his reinforces my suspicion, it's the motherboard or breakout board acting up.

    it could also be a bad crimp on the cable.



  • @Veti said in Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX:

    @war4peace said in Duet 3 and Creality CR 10 MAX:

    his reinforces my suspicion, it's the motherboard or breakout board acting up.

    it could also be a bad crimp on the cable.

    The cable is the default one which comes with the motor. I have taken precautions so that the wires won't move in relation to the places they're connected to while the printer is doing its job. Previously I had a different cable, and same issue occurred.
    While I can't fully rule out this possibility, it's highly unlikely.



  • are you on firmware 3.1.1?



  • I'm not sure what you mean, the stock motherboard uses Marlin firmware and I have upgraded it from 1.7.0 (Creality made) to 2.0.5 (TinyMachines 3D).



  • @war4peace
    forget it. there was a bug an early firmware version of duet. but this does not apply here.



  • I getting a CR10 max delivered here tomorrow. I'm also planning on a Duet 3 and Tool boards, already received. Yes, overkill but I like the quality of the hardware. Throwing out the control it comes with. I'll let you know how it goes.


Log in to reply