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    [3.4.0 beta 3] Heater 0 fault

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    • SIamundefined
      SIam @dc42
      last edited by

      @dc42 the room temp. Is at 20C°

      Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
      Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
      RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
      Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
      Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

      SIamundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • SIamundefined
        SIam @SIam
        last edited by SIam

        Here is a video from the heating process

        https://siam-net.de/temperror.mp4

        small correction the problem begins at 40C° not at 50 C°

        Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
        Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
        RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
        Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
        Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

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        • Phaedruxundefined
          Phaedrux Moderator
          last edited by

          Can you provide some details about the heater?

          Can you try a D value of 2?

          Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

          SIamundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • SIamundefined
            SIam @Phaedrux
            last edited by

            @phaedrux it is a silicon heater (400x400 clued on an ALU plate 420x420x8) with integrated thermistor 220V / 500W connected with an SSR. I have yesterday played around with the D value but this without success.
            One thing wonders me why i sometimes get this error:

            Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.3°C/sec
            

            and sometimes this one:

            Error: Heater 0 fault: temperature rising much more slowly than the expected 0.4°C/sec
            

            with the same settings

            Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
            Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
            RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
            Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
            Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

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            • deckingmanundefined
              deckingman
              last edited by

              I'm wondering if this is related to the integrated thermistor and the thick(ish) plate. I found that having the temperature sensor close to the junction between the heater and the plate is a bad idea. What tends to happen is that the heating process starts, the temperature at the junction between the heater rises very rapidly (hence the very low dead time) but the plate itself, especially the upper surface is still relatively cold. Despite this, the heater turns off because the junction where the thermistor is fitted is hot. After a period of time, the junction temperature falls, the heater turns on but due to the rapid increase in temperature at the junction where the sensor is located, it quickly turns off again. The process repeats until eventually the top of the plate reaches the desired temperature but it takes an awfully long time due to the on-off-on cycling of the heater during what should be the fully on phase of the heating process.

              I cured mine by drilling a 3mm dia hole, as deep as possible into the edge of the plate and as close as possible to the top surface and putting the thermistor in there. For info, I also have a 400 x 400 plate but it's 12mm thick and I also have a 240 V heater via an SSR but mine is 800Watt (IIRC). My D value (the dead time) is 28.16 seconds (tuned in January 2021 using RRF3.2).

              Ian
              https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
              https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

              SIamundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • SIamundefined
                SIam @deckingman
                last edited by

                @deckingman Thank you for your details, it sounds so far logic and i will give it a try when i get no other solution. What me wonder is that the printer never had a problem in the last 5 years and now with the latest beta occurs this problem

                Hypercube-Evolution-Hybrid, Piezo Orion, Orbiter
                Duet WiFi 1.02 or later + DueX5
                RepRapFirmware for Duet 2 WiFi/Ethernet 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27 11:30:36)
                Duet WiFi Server: 1.26
                Duet Web Control 3.4.0beta4 (2021-09-27)

                deckingmanundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • deckingmanundefined
                  deckingman @SIam
                  last edited by

                  @siam said in [3.4.0 beta 3] Heater 0 fault:

                  @deckingman Thank you for your details, it sounds so far logic and i will give it a try when i get no other solution. What me wonder is that the printer never had a problem in the last 5 years and now with the latest beta occurs this problem

                  Yes it looks like something has changed in firmware, born out by what DC42 has said. Moving the thermistor will be beneficial but it doesn't explain why you get the error now but you didn't before. I mentioned the position of the thermistor because that might help to understand how that interacts with whatever has changed in the firmware. Looking at your video, it seems that the temperature rises rapidly (as I would expect with the sensor being fitted where it is) but then the temperature rise seems to pause before rising again. Almost as if the heater turned off because of the rapid rise in temperature at the sensor, then of course the temperature rise became slow which triggered the error. If the firmware looks at the rate of change of temperature more frequently that it did before, that would explain why you see the error now and you didn't before with earlier firmware versions.

                  Ian
                  https://somei3deas.wordpress.com/
                  https://www.youtube.com/@deckingman

                  Phaedruxundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • hestiahuangundefined
                    hestiahuang
                    last edited by hestiahuang

                    Duet2wifi, 350W power supply.

                    I hitted the same issue when heating the BED. I have tried to run auto PID for it, also tried BANG-BANG mode for it, and I increased the dead time to around 10 too. It doesn't work. However I have used my printer for two years, I never saw that before. I think it may be the firmware issue, V3.4 b3. Then I have fallbacked the related change and rebuild, it comes normal now. Hope this can help you, if you doesn't print with PLA only, it will hapen when you need high temperature BED, like ABS, PC... Purge high performance PC, need around 140degree BED.

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                    • Phaedruxundefined
                      Phaedrux Moderator @deckingman
                      last edited by

                      @deckingman said in [3.4.0 beta 3] Heater 0 fault:

                      it doesn't explain why you get the error now but you didn't before.

                      I believe it's due to this bug fix in the beta

                      Detection of initial heating failure did not happen for heaters with slow heating rates

                      https://github.com/Duet3D/RepRapFirmware/wiki/Changelog-RRF-3.x-Beta-&-RC#reprapfirmware-340beta3

                      It may now be catching faults that were missed before and may be too sensitive.

                      Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

                      hestiahuangundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • hestiahuangundefined
                        hestiahuang @Phaedrux
                        last edited by

                        @phaedrux
                        I guess so, but it must be not make sense that it doesn't work even in BANG-BANG mode.😢

                        hestiahuangundefined Phaedruxundefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • hestiahuangundefined
                          hestiahuang @hestiahuang
                          last edited by hestiahuang

                          Can adjust or tuning the two conditions below temporary, in LocalHeater.cpp
                          if (derivative + AllowedTemperatureDerivativeNoise < expectedRate * 0.75
                          && (float)(millis() - timeSetHeating) > GetModel().GetDeadTime() * SecondsToMillis * 2)

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                          • Phaedruxundefined
                            Phaedrux Moderator @hestiahuang
                            last edited by

                            @hestiahuang said in [3.4.0 beta 3] Heater 0 fault:

                            @phaedrux
                            I guess so, but it must be not make sense that it doesn't work even in BANG-BANG mode.😢

                            Bang bang mode hasn't been very practical for quite a while. the firmware needs some idea of the heaters performance to allow the heater fault watch dogs to function. So PID tuning is highly recommended and basically required.

                            I assume that @dc42 will be able to tune the heater fault detection to be less sensitive to false positives.

                            Z-Bot CoreXY Build | Thingiverse Profile

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