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    What is the state of accelerometer support and input shaping?

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    • zapta
      zapta last edited by

      My new no-SBC Duet5+ printer got stabilized and I would like to dip into the accelerometer measurements and input shaping.

      What accelerometer should I get (an add-on one, not a tool board)?

      What can I do with now? Is input shaping ready for testing? If not, can I do some vibration/resonance analysis? Anything else?

      dc42 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • dc42
        dc42 administrators @zapta last edited by dc42

        @zapta see https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Accelerometers for what accelerometer to get and how to connect it. RRF 3.4beta supports input shaping, configured using the M593 command. There is an input shaping plugin for DWC to help analyse the accelerometer data.

        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

        zapta 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • zapta
          zapta @dc42 last edited by zapta

          Thanks @dc42, I will order a LIS3DSH board.

          What cable length is practical with the Mini5+? Going through the Voron V2.4 drag chains can result in a long path, around 2m IIRC.

          EDIT: Just ordered this one https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082W63MWL

          dc42 jay_s_uk 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • dc42
            dc42 administrators @zapta last edited by

            @zapta 2m may be pushing it. I have tested 1m. Make sure you wire the cable as I described in the page I linked to, with the CS conductor not next to any other signal wires.

            Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
            Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
            http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • jay_s_uk
              jay_s_uk @zapta last edited by

              @zapta I have tested a 2.7m USB-C cable and have had success

              Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

              zapta 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • zapta
                zapta @jay_s_uk last edited by

                @jay_s_uk said in What is the state of accelerometer support and input shaping?:

                @zapta I have tested a 2.7m USB-C cable and have had success

                Thanks @jay_s_uk. BTW, the documentation mentioned I2C and SPI, which one is better for this application?

                jay_s_uk 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • jay_s_uk
                  jay_s_uk @zapta last edited by

                  @zapta SPI is all that's supported in this implementation

                  Owns various duet boards and is the main wiki maintainer for the Teamgloomy LPC/STM32 port of RRF. Assume I'm running whatever the latest beta/stable build is

                  zapta CabalSoul 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • zapta
                    zapta @jay_s_uk last edited by

                    Thanks @jay_s_uk. My accelerometer should arrive tomorrow and I can't wait to get some graphs.

                    I am quiet happy with the way my printer prints and even didn't turn on pressure-advance but sometimes things get into resonance which makes the printer noisier that I would like.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • CabalSoul
                      CabalSoul @jay_s_uk last edited by

                      @jay_s_uk

                      Since I know that you have also a predator, do you care to share the result of your resonance analysis?

                      Sadly I have more resonant frequencies and the input shaper isn’t helping much in my case. The most prominent frequency is around 41.5 hz and it looks like the zvd is my best option.

                      I was Even wondering if installing steppermotor
                      Dampeners would improve my situation.

                      Anycubic Predator, Orbiter Extruder , Duet Wifi, Mosquito Hotend, Remote Extruder Stepper cooling and Part cooling

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • zapta
                        zapta @jay_s_uk last edited by

                        Before I connect and cause any damage, does this wiring diagram look right? It's for a Mini5+2 and this accelerometer https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082W63MWL and is based on the information here https://duet3d.dozuki.com/Wiki/Accelerometers

                        path5616.png

                        T3P3Tony 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • T3P3Tony
                          T3P3Tony administrators @zapta last edited by

                          @zapta It looks good to me

                          www.duet3d.com

                          zapta dmpmassive 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • zapta
                            zapta @T3P3Tony last edited by

                            Thanks @t3p3tony. My printer currently has the stable version below. Do I need to upgrade (to what version?) to use the LIS3DSH and input shaping?

                            b93e6343-a996-470e-bf13-80d354cb67fc-image.png

                            T3P3Tony 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • T3P3Tony
                              T3P3Tony administrators @zapta last edited by

                              @zapta input shaping is implemented in 3.4b, We should be releasing 3.4b5 soon which would be my recommendation as 3.4b4 has a bug with pausing that you may want to avoid. You can capture the data with 3.3 using the accelerometer plugin (different from input shaping plugin)

                              www.duet3d.com

                              zapta pkos 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • zapta
                                zapta @T3P3Tony last edited by

                                Thanks @t3p3tony, I will play with the accelerometer with 3.3 and will wait for 3.4b5.

                                pkos 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • pkos
                                  pkos @zapta last edited by

                                  This post is deleted!
                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • pkos
                                    pkos @T3P3Tony last edited by

                                    I'll latch on to this topic and ask about the future plans of Input Shaping and more specifically - separate values for X and Y.

                                    With CoreXY - I values will be quite close together unless I mess up the build totally.

                                    But with bedslingers - the variance to me has a chance of being much bigger and not always much can be done about it. Individual values would help here.

                                    So... do you have plans to introduce individual settings for X and Y or is it going to be just one value for good?

                                    T3P3Tony zapta 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • T3P3Tony
                                      T3P3Tony administrators @pkos last edited by

                                      @pkos we will evaluate separate input shaping for X and Y, there is certainly a logical argument for it. As it stands it wont be part of 3.4 release though, so for consideration in 3.5.

                                      www.duet3d.com

                                      pkos 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • pkos
                                        pkos @T3P3Tony last edited by

                                        @t3p3tony Understood. Thank you for the answer.
                                        Now I have to decide whether I will wait for 3.5 or sell my bedslinger (just as I was starting to like it πŸ˜‰ ).

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • zapta
                                          zapta @pkos last edited by

                                          @pkos said in What is the state of accelerometer support and input shaping?:

                                          the variance to me has a chance of being much bigger

                                          Have you tried to measure X and Y independently with the current RRF and see what you get?

                                          pkos 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • pkos
                                            pkos @zapta last edited by

                                            @zapta That's not the issue. We can already measure X and Y separately.

                                            The problem is that you can only pick one value for both axis for the input shaper configuration and they can be quite different.

                                            I am always quite reluctant to use comparisons to others, but unfortunately here Klipper does have the upper hand and allows for separate values on X and Y in it's input shaper config.

                                            And I don't like klipper. Not one bit πŸ˜‰ I like my duets.

                                            zapta dc42 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • zapta
                                              zapta @pkos last edited by zapta

                                              @pkos said in What is the state of accelerometer support and input shaping?:

                                              The problem is that you can only pick one value

                                              I wonder what value you got for X and what value you got for Y.

                                              Klipper seems to have a good momentum. I want to give it a try. Not sure if I can use my Mini5 wiring as is and just flush Klipper firmware and add a SBC.

                                              pkos 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                              • pkos
                                                pkos @zapta last edited by pkos

                                                @zapta I think there's a thread somewhere here about the mini and klipper support - and that it's not fully working yet.

                                                Personally, I can't stand klipper and this would be the only thing that would push me towards it - independent IS on X and Y working on all modes - be it cartesian, corexy or corexz.

                                                I dislike the fact that any config change requires you to restart the whole firmware, that you need the PI and SD Card to store data. If you shut the printer down too fast - you risk trashing the data on the SD card. Or the fact that you have no control over what's on the display if you use a mini 12864.

                                                Soooo many problems πŸ™‚

                                                But this actually brings me to another question I hope @T3P3Tony would answer as well - independent X and Y would work on bedslingers, CoreXY and CoreXZ too, right? πŸ™‚ This would nicely cover the Voron family of printers.

                                                EDIT: I see I never answered your question. I didn't get values yet. For now, I only have the newest beta firmware on a CoreXY and will start testing this soon. Here, values were pretty much the same on both X and Y. But I need to run a test print on the CoreXZ Voron Switchwire. There the values I expect will be very different.

                                                zapta 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                • zapta
                                                  zapta @pkos last edited by

                                                  @pkos

                                                  "If you shut the printer down too fast - you risk trashing the data on the SD card. "

                                                  Is that because the use of the SBC? Is it the same for Duet /RRF with SBC?

                                                  I am running a standalone duet for simplicity, one less computer to maintain.

                                                  pkos 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                  • dc42
                                                    dc42 administrators @pkos last edited by

                                                    @pkos said in What is the state of accelerometer support and input shaping?:

                                                    That's not the issue. We can already measure X and Y separately.
                                                    The problem is that you can only pick one value for both axis for the input shaper configuration and they can be quite different.

                                                    Until you measure the resonances, you won't know whether you have significant resonances on both X and Y axes, and if so whether they are too far apart for a single shaper to suppress both of them adequately.

                                                    Also bear in mind that there is a cost to having different input shapers for X and Y. The cost is that the tool head no longer follows the path commanded by the GCode, because the X and Y accelerations have different profiles.

                                                    Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                                                    Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                                                    http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                                                    zapta 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                                    • pkos
                                                      pkos @zapta last edited by

                                                      @zapta Yeah, that's a general RPI problem. If you don't shut it down properly, you can get the card filesystem messed up.

                                                      I am also running standalone for the same purpose - simplicity.

                                                      @dc42 - I printed out a DAA test cube (one from thingiverse) - for now, this is faster for me than hooking up an accelerometer. The difference is about 7 Hz. Understood on the path problem. That is good to know and pushes us I guess more into trying to even out the frequency between the X and Y (but makes the whole thing so much more difficult) πŸ™‚ Then again, I guess it should be understood that any input shaper will impact the print and how close it is to the actual model used for slicing.

                                                      zapta 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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