What's the difference...

infiniteloop

@nightowl999

I was trying to understand why there's a \macro folder and a \sys folder, if they're essentially the same.

To add some confusion: you can even make up your own folder, both at the root level and within /sys - that are two ways to hide macros effectively. - I don’t do this.

One thing to consider is a pending over-population of the /sys folder. Every new version of RRF introduces additional macros, plus some of your own code which should be in there - for example, if you decide to cut your config into logical segments, or, more often, macro snippets you only call from other /sys inhabitants.

At some point, it becomes difficult to locate a certain file you are just looking for. So it’s a good advice to keep the /sys directory as clean as possible.

Nightowl

@infiniteloop
Talking of which, can I bin the DuetWebControl-master folder, and the bed.g and config_default.g files?

fcwilt

@infiniteloop said in What's the difference...:

So it’s a good advice to keep the /sys directory as clean as possible.

On the other hand it can be easier to find, edit and execute the g-code files if they are mostly together in \sys.

For my most complicated printer I have 53 files in \sys and don't find that to be an problem.

Frederick

Nightowl

I agree, @fcwilt, although I haven't got 53 files in my \sys folder!

I suppose the real limit is the size of the SD card, but I was also wondering if the DWC would look for specific files in specific folders, like Windoze does for applications, downloads, My Documents, etc.

infiniteloop

@nightowl999 said in What's the difference...:

Talking of which, can I bin the DuetWebControl-master folder, and the bed.g and config_default.g files?

bed.g is called by G32, so keep it in place.

OK, that was easy. TBH, I don't even know the DuetWebControl-master folder or a config_default.g file. I have nothing like that on my SD card. But, before you delete these or any other objects, secure a copy of your SD card - just in case …

And here's some night lecture about the topic

Nightowl

@infiniteloop I knew I could rely on you!

I think the config_default.g is for the DuetPi, which I don't have, and the DuetWebControl-master folder is from a previous installation - although why it's on the SD card I don't know. I'll move them to a Do I Need This S**t folder and see what happens

infiniteloop

@nightowl999

I suppose the real limit is the size of the SD card

Physically, yes. For me, the limiting factor is the screen size, better: the size of the System Directory view in DWC. If I ever change my configuration, I have to go through several files to look things up or to counter-check compatibility with existing code. I still feel comfortable with 37 entries …

infiniteloop

@nightowl999 said in What's the difference...:

I'll move them to a Do I Need This S**t folder and see what happens

Good idea! However, don't forget regularly backups of your SD card - just in case it dies a sudden death.

fcwilt

@nightowl999 said in What's the difference...:

@infiniteloop I knew I could rely on you!

I think the config_default.g is for the DuetPi, which I don't have, and the DuetWebControl-master folder is from a previous installation - although why it's on the SD card I don't know. I'll move them to a Do I Need This S**t folder and see what happens

The SD card that ships with a Duet board comes with a set of files/folders - some of which you will likely never need.

What I do with a new SD card is copy it all to a location on my computer where I keep everything 3D printing related.

Then I format the SD card, install my basic config.g file, which contains just enough to get the Duet up and connected to my network.

The rest of the files ( I tend to use a standard set of files) get uploaded to the Duet either via the DWC or an FTP connection.

Frederick

fcwilt

@infiniteloop said in What's the difference...:

@nightowl999

I suppose the real limit is the size of the SD card

Physically, yes. For me, the limiting factor is the screen size, better: the size of the System Directory view in DWC. If I ever change my configuration, I have to go through several files to look things up or to counter-check compatibility with existing code. I still feel comfortable with 37 entries …

As the capability of the Duet firmware has grown my files have grown in number and size. As that has happened I have found the limitations of the DWC editor becoming a bit of a problem.

I recently downloaded all configuration files from each of my printers into a Windows editor that supports "projects". There are several such editors. A "project" is a set of files that the editor keeps together. Just the ability to do project wide search/replace made the change to using Windows editor worthwhile.

I haven't completely gotten out of the habit of editing in the DWC but that will come, I hope.

It will be best if reach the point where I do all my editing/creating in the Windows editor and just upload to the Duet. I wish the editor supported FTP so I could upload directly from the editor.

Frederick

Nightowl

@infiniteloop said in What's the difference...:

Good idea! However, don't forget regularly backups of your SD card - just in case it dies a sudden death.

Good point, but not something I've even thought about.

How does one access the SD card on a wired network, or is it simply a case of taking it out of the Duet?

infiniteloop

@nightowl999 said in What's the difference...:

How does one access the SD card on a wired network, or is it simply a case of taking it out of the Duet?

The simple case. My Mac has a card reader: just a quick copy onto SSD/HDD - that's it.

fcwilt

@nightowl999 said in What's the difference...:

How does one access the SD card on a wired network, or is it simply a case of taking it out of the Duet?

You can but there is a risk of damage - those little things are fragile and I have snapped more than one.

I use FTP which is part of the Windows file manager I use (Directory Opus) but I am looking at an editor that supports FTP. The learning curve may just be too steep as I know my current editor well.

You do have to include in the config.g the command to enable FTP.

M586 S1 P1 T0			; enable (S1) FTP    (P1) Disable TLS (T0)

Frederick

infiniteloop

@fcwilt said in What's the difference...:

It will be best if reach the point where I do all my editing/creating in the Windows editor and just upload to the Duet.

Good solution, but I can't keep up with you - better said: with my single lonely printer, I still try to keep things simple so that DWC doesn't limit me too much … well, until now

deckingman

@Nightowl999 Here is another use case where one might want to put macros in a .sys folder rather than in the macros folder. It's a bit complicated but then I have a rather complicated printer .

Essentially, I have multiple hot end configurations that I swap between (6 input mixing, 6 input multi-material, single input and dual input etc). I use M505 to change configurations which changes the path for .sys. Effectively, this gives me multiple .sys folders. I also have macros called "pre-print" and "post-print". These take care of everything that is needed to happen immediately before a print commences (i.e heat the bed, heat the hot end heater(s), home all, purge and wipe nozzle etc etc). So I simply turn on the printer, change the configuration path if necessary, select a file, hit print and come back a few hours later to retrieve the part. My slicer has just a single command in the start and end gcode sections which are M98 P"PrePrint.g" and M98 P"PostPrint" respectively.

Note that there is no path in that statement because the pre and post print macros reside in those sub folders of .sys not in the .macros folder. The reason is that "pre-print" and "post-print" do different things depending on which hot end I have the configuration set to (e.g. purging 6 tools would have undesirable consequences if only one tool is configured). So I have multiple copies of "pre-print" and "post-print" which have the same file names but exist in different locations and which do different things. Hence I never have to change the line in my slicer start gcode - it will always be M98 P "PrePrint.g" but it will point to a different file depending on the path set by M505.

If I put the pre and post print files in the macros folder, these would be common to all configurations. So I would need to have multiple files with different names (i.e. PrePrint6InputMixing, PrePrintSingleInput etc) and I would have to constantly edit the slicer start and end gcode to call the correct macro.

In summary, anything in ".sys" is common to a particular configuration but anything in "macros" is common across multiple configurations. In practice the vast majority of users will only have a single configuration so will never need to bother about it.

infiniteloop

@deckingman said in What's the difference...:

In summary, anything in ".sys" is common to a particular configuration but anything in "macros" is common across multiple configurations.

That's a good way to put it!

T3P3Tony

@deckingman said in What's the difference...:

In summary, anything in ".sys" is common to a particular configuration but anything in "macros" is common across multiple configurations. In practice the vast majority of users will only have a single configuration so will never need to bother about it.

with the proviso that you are using M505 so switch the /sys path.

But yes this sort of flexibility is what RRF is designed to support.

fcwilt

@deckingman said in What's the difference...:

In summary, anything in ".sys" is common to a particular configuration but anything in "macros" is common across multiple configurations.

Well the exception proves the rule, as they say. I have Macros that are unique to a given printer.

For example, I have one printer with a mountable Z probe, so I have Macros for Mount Probe and Unmount Probe.

Now generally I don't need to use them but sometimes things don't go quite the way I planned and I use them to put things back in "sync".

Frederick

bot

@fcwilt FYI, there is no need to have the numbers in the displayed name if you want to manually enforce an order. if you put the number followed by an underscore, the numbers will be omitted in the display, but used for ordering. See here: https://docs.duet3d.com/User_manual/Tuning/Macros_tasks#naming-and-ordering-macros

fcwilt

@bot said in What's the difference...:

@fcwilt FYI, there is no need to have the numbers in the displayed name if you want to manually enforce an order. if you put the number followed by an underscore, the numbers will be omitted in the display, but used for ordering. See here: https://docs.duet3d.com/User_manual/Tuning/Macros_tasks#naming-and-ordering-macros

Thanks.

I learn something new everyday.

Frederick