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    Input Shaping On / Off Switch

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    • dc42undefined
      dc42 administrators @CCS86
      last edited by

      @ccs86 I think disabling input shaping during non-solid infill is a good idea. I'd need to introduce another parameter to M593 to allow IS to be enabled/disabled without affecting the parameters.

      Alternatively, some slicers label what they are doing with comments. RRF could parse those comments and enable/disable IS automatically. For PrusaSlicer I think it would be appropriate to disable IS only on sections labelled "TYPE:Internal infill" and to all travel moves.

      Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
      Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
      http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

      CCS86undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • CCS86undefined
        CCS86 @dc42
        last edited by

        @dc42 said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

        @ccs86 I think disabling input shaping during non-solid infill is a good idea. I'd need to introduce another parameter to M593 to allow IS to be enabled/disabled without affecting the parameters.

        Alternatively, some slicers label what they are doing with comments. RRF could parse those comments and enable/disable IS automatically. For PrusaSlicer I think it would be appropriate to disable IS only on sections labelled "TYPE:Internal infill" and to all travel moves.

        Awesome, I'm glad to hear you see some validity in this request!

        Automatic on/off would be very slick.

        I think leaving it off for solid infill could be useful as well. It could help prevent over-extrusion during the reversal between passes.

        Travel moves are more tricky because you travel to and between perimeters, where IS would be very helpful in improving surface finish.

        dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • dc42undefined
          dc42 administrators @CCS86
          last edited by dc42

          @ccs86 I meant to say that IS should be enabled on all travel moves. This is because Prusa Slicer appears to label a section after the travel move that precedes it.

          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

          CCS86undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • CCS86undefined
            CCS86 @dc42
            last edited by CCS86

            @dc42 said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

            @ccs86 I meant to say that IS should be enabled on all travel moves. This is because Prusa Slicer appears to label a section after the travel move that precedes it.

            Which is a shame, because there is likely a bunch of time to gain with IS disabled during infill travel.

            Prusa Slicer devs may be open to moving the label to before that initial travel move, if there is a nice functional reason like this.

            gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • gloomyandyundefined
              gloomyandy @CCS86
              last edited by

              @ccs86 Since to get this to work I assume you will need to increase the acceleration used when doing the infill (and reduce it for perimeters), what happens if you just do that? I know that IS may not work as well with higher accelerations but does it actually slow things down or cause other problems?

              CCS86undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • CCS86undefined
                CCS86 @gloomyandy
                last edited by

                @gloomyandy said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

                @ccs86 Since to get this to work I assume you will need to increase the acceleration used when doing the infill (and reduce it for perimeters), what happens if you just do that? I know that IS may not work as well with higher accelerations but does it actually slow things down or cause other problems?

                I think the issue with that logic is that setting higher accelerations with IS on and cancelling a frequency around 50Hz, is that effective acceleration is capped and doesn't increase.

                @dc42 can speak more precisely about that.

                gloomyandyundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • gloomyandyundefined
                  gloomyandy @CCS86
                  last edited by

                  @ccs86 That's interesting. What sort of caps have you seen to acceleration when using IS? I've not noticed any in my own tests. But perhaps you are running much higher rates.

                  CCS86undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • CCS86undefined
                    CCS86 @gloomyandy
                    last edited by

                    @gloomyandy said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

                    @ccs86 That's interesting. What sort of caps have you seen to acceleration when using IS? I've not noticed any in my own tests. But perhaps you are running much higher rates.

                    That is how IS functions, by intelligently limiting acceleration. The lower the frequency you specify, the more aggressive this is.

                    Try making a print with and without IS on and see the difference in total print time.

                    o_lampeundefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • o_lampeundefined
                      o_lampe @CCS86
                      last edited by

                      @CCS86
                      Interesting thread.
                      Isn't IS only avoiding acceleration around the resonance frequence, but can accelerate faster than that?
                      IMHO it should work smoothly above resonance frequency until you hit double/quad frequency again.

                      dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • dc42undefined
                        dc42 administrators @o_lampe
                        last edited by

                        @o_lampe said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

                        @CCS86
                        Interesting thread.
                        Isn't IS only avoiding acceleration around the resonance frequence, but can accelerate faster than that?
                        IMHO it should work smoothly above resonance frequency until you hit double/quad frequency again.

                        No. Any change in acceleration will excite resonances. IS breaks the acceleration phase up into multiple phases with different accelerations so that the multiple changes in acceleration excite the resonances in ways that cancel out.

                        Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                        Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                        http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

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                        • dc42undefined
                          dc42 administrators @CCS86
                          last edited by

                          @CCS86 said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

                          Well, for infill, I can't think of why I would want input shaping on.

                          Indeed, I can see that you might want to turn IS off during infill. However, when it finishes the infill and switches to perimeters, the last infill move (or the last several infill moves if they are short) will excite resonances that will affect that perimeter. So you would need to re-enable IS for the last few infill moves. If you can produce a slicer that can do that, I will gladly add an input shaping on/off command.

                          Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                          Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                          http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                          CCS86undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • CCS86undefined
                            CCS86 @dc42
                            last edited by

                            @dc42 said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

                            @CCS86 said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

                            Well, for infill, I can't think of why I would want input shaping on.

                            Indeed, I can see that you might want to turn IS off during infill. However, when it finishes the infill and switches to perimeters, the last infill move (or the last several infill moves if they are short) will excite resonances that will affect that perimeter. So you would need to re-enable IS for the last few infill moves. If you can produce a slicer that can do that, I will gladly add an input shaping on/off command.

                            That is a good point!

                            What if... instead of an on/off switch, IS could have a "perimeters only" flag that would parse extrusion roles in the read-ahead buffer:

                            ;TYPE:External perimeter
                            ;TYPE:Internal perimeter
                            ;TYPE:Internal infill
                            

                            and intelligently utilize IS when needed?

                            dc42undefined 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • dc42undefined
                              dc42 administrators @CCS86
                              last edited by

                              @CCS86 yes I thought of that too. Same problem: we would need to turn on IS a few moves before the perimeter starts. That may be possible if we use the second file reader in RRF3.5 to read a few lines ahead.

                              Duet WiFi hardware designer and firmware engineer
                              Please do not ask me for Duet support via PM or email, use the forum
                              http://www.escher3d.com, https://miscsolutions.wordpress.com

                              o_lampeundefined CCS86undefined 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • o_lampeundefined
                                o_lampe @dc42
                                last edited by o_lampe

                                @dc42 For those users, who print infill with a second extruder, it would be cool to define a tsoon.g macro.
                                The second gcode reader would set a flag in OM when a toolchange is ahead.
                                tsoon.g would then be triggered and could restart IS and the perimeter hotend.

                                That would also work for all users with only one extruder: they just have to setup their printer and slicer "as if" they had a second extruder.

                                //edit. Maybe call it tahead.g to make it's usecase clearer

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                                • CCS86undefined
                                  CCS86 @dc42
                                  last edited by

                                  @dc42 said in Input Shaping On / Off Switch:

                                  @CCS86 yes I thought of that too. Same problem: we would need to turn on IS a few moves before the perimeter starts. That may be possible if we use the second file reader in RRF3.5 to read a few lines ahead.

                                  Yes. Ideal (if practical to implement) would be to look at the "distance to perimeter" as a trigger to enable IS, with this distance adjustable via IS definition call.

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