You are doing it wrong… I know



  • Yes, I'm doing it wrong, but can't figure out why. The plan was to convert my Delta to a full 24v system.
    The bed was already running at 24v with an SSR.

    Removed the 12v hotend fan, layer cooling fans and heater cartridge and installed 24v ones.
    All motor currents and config.g remains the same. Did a PID autotune for the new heater, but that's it.
    The hotend motor is a nema17 0.9º "slimline" from E3D.https://e3d-online.com/nema17-slimline-stepper-motor

    The problem is that the extruder clicks when trying to extrude. At idle you can hear a very low whining.

    I've just reinstalled all the 12v stuff and it's working good. The problem is just the extruder motor at 24v, everything else seems to work finw with 24v.
    What am I missing here? Please advice

    EDIT: Typo



  • My best guess…........ You've tuned the 24v heater and either not saved the values or you've put them into config.g and you have a config-overide.g file that has the old values for your 12v heater. So you are running the 24v heater with PID parameters for a 12v one. Having said that, I'd have expected a heater fault or other related error message. Do you get that?
    You mention the extruder motor - did you change that as well? If so, did you change the steps per mm to suit a 0.9 degree motor?



  • Hello Ian.
    Did the PID tuning and then M500 to store them. I've also updated those values in the config.g just in case. Checked config-override.g and the values are indeed being updated.

    After the tune, heater is working good though. It heats and maintains that temperature very steady.
    The issue is just the extruder motor.

    Steps/mm are the same as when it was a 12v system. I was using the same 0.9º motor. Or does the step/mm change when using a 24v PSU?



  • ; Configuration file for Duet Delta v2
    
    ; General Preferences <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M111 S0 					; Debugging off
    G21 						; Work in millimetres
    G90 						; Send absolute coordinates...
    M83 						; ...but relative extruder moves
    M555 P2 					; Set firmware compatibility to look like Marlin
    M665 R136.1 L292.5 B120 H293.55 		; Set delta radius, diagonal rod length, printable radius and homed height
    
    ; Drives Direction <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M569 P0 S1 					; Drive 0 goes forwards (X)
    M569 P1 S1 					; Drive 1 goes forwards (Y)
    M569 P2 S1 					; Drive 2 goes forwards (Z)
    M569 P3 S0 					; Drive 3 goes backwards (E0) E3D TitanAero
    M569 P4 S0 					; Drive 4 goes backwards (E1) SIN USAR
    
    ; Endstops <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M574 X2 Y2 Z2 S1 				; All endstops at high end, active high
    M666 X0 Y0 Z0 					; Put your endstop adjustments here, or let auto calibration find them
    
    ; Acceleration, Jerk and Speeds <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M201 X1500 Y1500 Z1500 E1000 			; Set accelerations (mm/s^2)
    M566 X900 Y900 Z900 E1200 			; Set maximum instantaneous speed changes (mm/min)
    M203 X18000 Y18000 Z18000 E2400 		; Set maximum speeds (mm/min)
    
    ; Motor Steps, Microstepping and Current <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M350 X32 Y32 Z32 E16 I0	 			; XYZ and E0 microstepping (Interpolation OFF)
    M92 X160 Y160 Z160 E810 			; XYZ and E0 steps per mm
    M906 X1500 Y1500 Z1500 E900 I60 		; Set motor currents (mA) and motor idle factor in per cent
    M84 S30 					; Idle stepper motors after 30 seconds of inactivity
    M579 Y0.995					; Scale compensation
    
    ; Thermistors and Heaters <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M143 H1 S290 					; Set maximum heater temperature to 290c
    M143 H0 S120 					; Set maximum bed temperature to 120c
    M305 P0 T100000 B3950 C0 R4700 			; P=0 Bed Thermistor
    M305 P1 T100000 B4725 C7.06e-8 R4700 H0 L0	; P=1 Hotend Thermistor 104GT
    M307 H1 A421.9 C159.0 D6.1 S1.00 B0		; PID Values for Hotend
    
    ; M301 H0 S1.00 P10 I0.1 D200 T0.4 W180 B30 	; PID Values for Bed (may require further tuning). STOCK FROM RRF CONFIG TOOL
    
    ; Tool Head <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M563 P0 D0 H1 					; Tool 0 uses extruder drive 0 and heater 1 (and Fan0)
    G10 P0 X0 Y0 Z0 				; Set tool 0 axis offsets
    G10 P0 R0 S0 					; Set initial tool 0 active and standby temperatures to 0C
    
    ; WiFi Network <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M550 PDuetDelta 				; Set machine name
    M552 S1 					; Enable network
    M587 S"TinArnt" P"AfgLk123RKb54120" 	        ; Configure access point and IP addresses.
    M586 P0 S1 					; Enable HTTP
    M586 P1 S0 					; Disable FTP
    M586 P2 S0 					; Disable Telnet
    M575 P1 B57600 S1				; Comms parameters for PanelDue
    
    ; Fans <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M106 P0 S0 I0 F500 H-1 				; FAN0, Layer Fan, Thermostatic control OFF
    M106 P1 S1 I0 F500 H1 T50 			; FAN1, Hotend Fan, Thermostatic control ON
    M106 P2 S1 I0 F500 H-1	 			; FAN2, SIN USAR, Thermostatic control OFF
    
    ; Miscellaneous <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
    M912 P0 S-6          				; CPU temperature sensor correction (S = Hotend+Bed/2 - CPU)
    M501                				; Run config-override.g
    T0 						; Select first tool
    
    


  • Which extruder are you using?



  • Hi pogo, it's a Titan Aero.



  • @Martin_S:

    …...................
    Steps/mm are the same as when it was a 12v system. I was using the same 0.9º motor. Or does the step/mm change when using a 24v PSU?

    No micro stepping doesn't change. As you made specific reference to the extruder motor, I was just wondering if you had changed the motor at the same time as changing to 24V. Clearly not the case then.

    Your description of what is happening is consistent with a restriction preventing the filament from coming out of the nozzle as it should. I can't think of any reason why changing to 24V would cause that so am inclined to think that it must be co-incidental. If the hot end is getting up to temperature, then it would indicate a blockage or partial blockage.



  • Hello Ian, I can confidently assure that the hotend is not blocked. After swapping all the 12v items for 24v ones the heater block received a full clean service 😛
    Either way, I was trying to extrude with no filament loaded. That's why I'm perplexed by this issue.

    As soon as I get home I will try by playing with motor current and idle factor.
    Don't know what else to do.



  • Sorry. I'm struggling to understand what the problem is. In your OP, you said this:

    "The problem is that the extruder clicks when trying to extrude".

    I assumed from that you meant that you were extruding filament.

    So, are you saying that with no filament loaded, when you use DWC to extrude, you get this clicking noise? Do you get the same behaviour with filament loaded? Does the extruder gear rotate? Have you checked that the grub screw holding the gear on the motor shaft is tight? What happens if you take the motor off of the extruder - does the motor itself rotate as expected?

    Just trying to pin down what the issue is.



  • What speed are you trying to extrude?

    Am I correct in understanding that the extruder drive and motor were the same between 12V and 24V setups? Did you change the wiring at all? Are you sure you commanded an extruder speed that worked with 12V in the past? Can you try a slower speed? 5mm/s is plenty to at least test that it’s wired properly and configured in a usable enough way for further testing. Can you double check that the motor connectors are fully seated on both ends of the wire? If it’s seated correctly, is there any chance the motor wire got damaged during the upgrade?

    A full amp should be OK for that motor, unless you know from experience with that motor that the motor will get too hot.



  • @deckingman:

    Sorry. I'm struggling to understand what the problem is. In your OP, you said this:

    "The problem is that the extruder clicks when trying to extrude".

    I assumed from that you meant that you were extruding filament.

    Yes, sorry, I struggle with the English language sometimes.
    Hard to express myself properly.

    @deckingman:

    So, are you saying that with no filament loaded, when you use DWC to extrude, you get this clicking noise? Do you get the same behaviour with filament loaded? Does the extruder gear rotate?

    Yes indeed. I've tried to extrude with no filament loaded and with filament loaded. In both cases the extruder gear won't rotate.

    @deckingman:

    Have you checked that the grub screw holding the gear on the motor shaft is tight?

    Yes, the grub screw is tight.

    @deckingman:

    What happens if you take the motor off of the extruder - does the motor itself rotate as expected?

    Did that, the motor shaft won't rotate in this situation either.

    To sum up, I can make the extruder motor shaft rotate with 12v but not with 24v.



  • @JRDM:

    What speed are you trying to extrude?

    The lowest possible when using the DWC.

    @JRDM:

    Am I correct in understanding that the extruder drive and motor were the same between 12V and 24V setups?

    Yes, it's the same.

    @JRDM:

    Did you change the wiring at all? Are you sure you commanded an extruder speed that worked with 12V in the past?

    The wiring is the same. Yes, I'm sure, double checked that.

    @JRDM:

    Can you try a slower speed? 5mm/s is plenty to at least test that it’s wired properly and configured in a usable enough way for further testing.

    I don't think I can, I was trying with the lowest speed available in the DWC.

    @JRDM:

    Can you double check that the motor connectors are fully seated on both ends of the wire? If it’s seated correctly, is there any chance the motor wire got damaged during the upgrade?

    Did that, but will do it again as soon as I get home. Maybe do a continuity test too.
    That's the weird thing. If fed 24v, it doesn't work, but if I switch to 12v it does. So the motor is ok, and presumably the wiring too.

    @JRDM:

    A full amp should be OK for that motor, unless you know from experience with that motor that the motor will get too hot.

    Thanks, will try 1 amp too. I remember lowering the amps because of the motor getting hot, but can't recall how many amps were fed before tunning.



  • @Martin_S:

    ….....................
    To sum up, I can make the extruder motor shaft rotate with 12v but not with 24v.

    That sums up the problem beautifully. What we now need is for David (DC42) to comment. I have no idea why that motor works with 12V but doesn't with 24V but David might be able to shed some light on it.


  • administrators

    Is the extruder driver getting hot, especially when using 24V power? Does M122 report that it is over-temperature?



  • @dc42:

    Is the extruder driver getting hot, especially when using 24V power? Does M122 report that it is over-temperature?

    This would be the proper way to do what you suggested?
    1. Connect the 24v PSU.
    2. Power up the printer.
    3. Set bed and hotend to print temperatures?
    4. Wait lets say 10 min?
    5. Send M122
    6. Report back here with the results.

    EDIT: typo


  • administrators

    Add step 3a: command some extrusion, to enable the driver.



  • Well, It must have been a wiring issue (or something else), because now the extruder is working under 24v.
    For now, I will rewire the entire extruder connection and see how it goes. If the problem appears again I will report back.

    Did my homework though, here is the M122 report:

    [c]With 24v PSU
    Bed set to 60ºc
    Hotend set to 180ºc
    Hit "Extrude" from DWC. 50mm feed amount, 1mm/sec feedrate
    Waited 10 min
    Hit "Extrude" again, just in case the 10 min wait could let the driver cooldown.[/c]

    === Diagnostics ===
    Used output buffers: 3 of 32 (10 max)
    === Platform ===
    RepRapFirmware for Duet WiFi version 1.20beta6 running on Duet WiFi 1.0
    Board ID: 08DDM-9FAM2-LW4SD-6JKFD-3S46T-93XZX
    Static ram used: 15472
    Dynamic ram used: 97048
    Recycled dynamic ram: 2168
    Stack ram used: 1368 current, 4920 maximum
    Never used ram: 11464
    Last reset 00:04:24 ago, cause: power up
    Last software reset reason: User, spinning module GCodes, available RAM 11340 bytes (slot 1)
    Software reset code 0x0003, HFSR 0x00000000, CFSR 0x00000000, ICSR 0x00400000, BFAR 0xe000ed38, SP 0xffffffff
    Error status: 0
    Free file entries: 10
    SD card 0 detected, interface speed: 20.0MBytes/sec
    SD card longest block write time: 0.0ms
    MCU temperature: min 21.3, current 29.3, max 29.5
    Supply voltage: min 23.8, current 24.0, max 24.2, under voltage events: 0, over voltage events: 0
    Driver 0: standstill
    Driver 1: standstill
    Driver 2: standstill
    Driver 3: standstill
    Driver 4: standstill
    Date/time: 2017-12-16 16:28:52
    Cache data hit count 1113211460
    Slowest main loop (seconds): 0.004874; fastest: 0.000041
    === Move ===
    MaxReps: 1, StepErrors: 0, FreeDm: 240, MinFreeDm 239, MaxWait: 2677025694ms, Underruns: 0, 0
    Scheduled moves: 5, completed moves: 5
    Bed compensation in use: none
    Bed probe heights: 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
    === Heat ===
    Bed heater = 0, chamber heater = -1
    Heater 0 is on, I-accum = 0.0
    Heater 1 is on, I-accum = 0.2
    === GCodes ===
    Segments left: 0
    Stack records: 2 allocated, 0 in use
    Movement lock held by null
    http is idle in state(s) 0
    telnet is idle in state(s) 0
    file is idle in state(s) 0
    serial is idle in state(s) 0
    aux is idle in state(s) 0
    daemon is idle in state(s) 0
    queue is idle in state(s) 0
    autopause is idle in state(s) 0
    Code queue is empty.
    Network state is running
    WiFi module is connected to access point
    Failed messages: pending 0, notready 0, noresp 0
    WiFi firmware version 1.20beta2
    WiFi MAC address 8c:cf:7f:a4:05:f8
    WiFi Vcc 3.10, reset reason Turned on by main processor
    WiFi flash size 4194304, free heap 39128
    WiFi IP address 192.168.1.5
    WiFi signal strength -62dBm, reconnections 0, sleep mode modem
    HTTP sessions: 1 of 8
    Socket states: 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    Responder states: HTTP(1) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) HTTP(0) FTP(0) Telnet(0)
    
    

    Sorry for the trouble.
    Martin

    Edit: report added


 

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