Jerk/accel settings not working for me
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Please post the GCode of the circles or ovals etc. that you are trying to print that print jerkily. We've seen issues before with slicers generating tiny non-extruding moves between extruding moves. S3D still does that when printing skirts, but thankfully not the rest of the time.
Extruder jerk of 60 is very low, and if you use pressure advance you will certainly need a lot more. I suggest at least 600.
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Sorry for taking a bit to reply, I had to put my old board on for a bit to finish a project. 60 does seem low after looking at everyone else's, but it worked PERFECT on marlin which really throws me off that this firmware is so different when it comes to the jerk and accel. I have attempted it with 2 slicers, S3D and Idea maker, both same jerky motion, nothing is smooth. Here is my gcode though, feel free to check it out!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dwXWh0slnOdZQeG-oGh5iy_89H0ujWp4/view?usp=sharing
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That's some of the worst GCode I have ever seen. It includes lots of really tiny segments, which means very low extrusion distances, but it's only giving the extrusion distance to 4 decimal places when it needs at least 5. So the extrusion rate is varying erratically.
I have seen S3D do this before when generating the skirt, but not for the actual print as it is here.
For Marlin to be printing this without jerking, it must be ignoring the extruder jerk limit completely.
You might get reasonable results if you set the extruder jerk limit very high in M566. But IMO a better solution is to use a slicer that generates better GCode.
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I do appreciate your help with this.
I'm not seeing any "really tiny segments" that you wouldn't find in other sliced models using a different slicers. The gcode produced by ideamaker and cura look very similar to the one produced by S3D. The model has been exported in an average STL resolution and an extremely high 100MB version, which shows no difference either. Do keep in mind, its not only with this one item, its with all of my prints I have attempted. I've yet to produce a part that I would consider acceptable, which really bugs me since this has never been an issues for me. I love the screen, internet interface and the how quiet my printer is now, I'd love to switch all of my printers over to this system, but i need to address this issue first. Do you recommend a slicer that's better than Cura, S3d, or ideamaker, that would prove a point here that its the slicer and not firmware?
I cranked the extruder jerk up to 6k, then to 60k, no difference with quality one bit from 60 and 600.
Thanks!
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Last time I compared the outputs, Cura produced better GCode than S3D.
Can you share the STL model you are starting from?
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Since the part I've been printing is a customers, I can't share the actual part. But, I will post a small section of it below(its the section that was featured in the gcode above). Last night, I tried the same model in cura, with the same results I was getting on S3D.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16teyQzuT7mKSkqpj_Cpv5Gk7gJUY4pch/view?usp=sharing
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After playing with it this last week, I think I will be switching back to the rambo board with Marlin shortly since the only fix I've found for this jerk issue is printing at half of my normal speed which really isn't acceptable to me.
I will probably check back in a few months to see if any firmware updates have fixed the issue.
Thank you for all your help guys! I am still up for suggestions if you guys have any. I'd like to use this board over the rambo since the hardware capabilities are far superior.
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@Ret,
1. Before you do that, could you try an earlier version of firmware - prior to 1.20 (say 1.19). The reason I suggest it is that there are similarities in the behaviour that you are seeing and something I saw back in January. It's in this very long thread which is mostly related to pressure advance behaviour with multiple extruders (mixing hot end). https://www.duet3d.com/forum/thread.php?id=1999&p=3. Unfortunately I went off on my travels and since then I haven't had chance to do much printing this year. I'm still on 1.20 RC "something" so things may have changed again. At that time, David had recently changed something in the firmware that I think was to do with pressure advance behaviour but the result was that I was getting jerky behaviour on arcs. My memory is a bit hazy but IIRC it seemed that the firmware had become more sensitive to gcode which produced varying segment sizes for arcs.
2, If you do go back to Rambo / Marlin, please report back if it fixes your problem. I'm sure David will "pull out all the stops" to implement a fix if it can be shown that another board/firmware does something better than Duet.
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@Ret, please share the gcode that Cura generated, so that I can see whether it has the same issue as the S3D gcode.
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I sliced the model STL sample that was posted earlier in Slic3r PE and the extruder moves were to 5 decimal places. Without the full model it's hard to know what the orientation it is printed in, but to test it I rotated it so that the flat part of the circle is to the bed. I did a test print of the first few mm.
The part is very thin, and I suspect that S3D is trying to lay a line thinner than the nozzle diameter and is breaking it up into small sections of extruding and not extruding.
You can force Slic3r to do similar behavior by turning off detect thin walls, which merges the inner walls into a single gap fill move. Slic3r seems to handle it a lot better.
That's just a thought though.
Here is what Slic3r generated
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pigl8mxi9h50fnu/TL_CUT.gcode?dl=0
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Are the segments lengths for each curve all more of less the same size? I've had issues with Slic3R (PE) where they are not. This seems to cause havoc with printing curves, especially if pressure advance is employed.
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The main problem with the file that @deckingman refers to news that the ratio of extrusion amount to XY movement amount was varying wildly, especially for the very short segments.
Another issue that causes jerky movements is when S3D inserts tiny G0 moves (no extrusion) in between extruding moves. It seems to do this always when generating curves in the skirt, but so far I haven't seen it do it in the main part of the print.
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Deckingman,
I will give an earlier version a shot within the next day or so, thank you!dc42,
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bpdNy6O7MxUwSIXr4ZoWXPekSAoUQRRx/view?usp=sharing
This isn’t an exact copy of the other model used in the gcode link I sent with s3d. It is the same part but started at a different position. I still am unclear what you mean by little segments, but to me, visually, the outer layers look similar, maybe slightly cleaner with Cura.Phaedrux,
Those varying internal extrusion widths are how I set it up. The problem occurs on all parts of the print(outer layers, inner layers, and infill). The outer and inner layers are consistent, but the infill segments vary to fill the space since it’s a unique geometry.
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I have attempted printing with pressure advance (0.01-0.3), with no real notable change in quality. I did however have to modify jerk settings as I went higher with the pressure advance, but I believe that’s as to be expected. -
I went back to 1.19, no real significant changes between the item printed (same gcode) on 1.21. 1.19 seemed to stutter more, at least it looked like it. There’s nothing smooth about the movements as opposed to my previous marlin.
DC42, have you ever looked into the acceleration and jerk code in marlin? You also did mention the extrusion value needed to be 5 decimal, instead of 4. Is that just a preference or does it actually NEED to be 5 for your firmware? Of course 5 will be quite a bit more accurate, but it seemed to work just great with the other firmware I was running. Cura using 5 has no noticeable impact as opposed to S3D’s 4 in my experiments with the duet.
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This is on my list to look at. I strongly suspect that Marlin doesn't do extruder jerk planning at all.
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I don't know if this is related, but I sliced a model using S3D that runs very badly on my printer. However, the printer runs fine if I comment out every other line in the gcode during cornering.
My custom printer running 2.0 alpha 1 printer makes loud noise at corners.
https://youtu.be/ZIlCNwHtu50
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@deckingman I think I have seen this recently when printing some PETG with a higher pressure advance value. Jerky motion on curves leading to vertical banding where the extruder pauses/slows down very briefly on the curve.
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Please do let me know what you find out, @dc42, after looking at marlin.
@Shen, I haven’t manually modified g-code to alleviate any issues yet, but that’s an interesting find. It seems like this firmware especially dislikes how S3D handles things. Marlin didn’t have any jerky issues for me pre-duetWifi upgrade.
For now though, I’m left with no choice but to go back to my old board running marlin until some improvements come out. It’s been tough completing orders with one printer down. However, on weekends I’d have no problem going back to the duet to try any suggestions anyone might have.
Thanks guys!
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@Ret, For me there are workarounds to the problem. Such as slowing down perimeters, lower jerk/acceleration, but I don't know if you are willing to sacrifice the speed. I had to slow down to 2mm/s jerk and 1500mm/s^2 acceleration for the noise to go away, but before I switch to the internal drivers, with the filter function of my external driver I was able to achieve 10mm/s + jerk and 3000mm/s^2 + acceleration without any issue.
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@shen I did find slowing things down a lot helped significantly, but it just throws me off that Marlin was able to do it so successfully without any signs of funny jerky motions. I've had to cut my speed in half to get okay results, but even then, they're not as good as prior. I can't afford to lose half the speed I normally print at. I am however glad to hear that I'm not the only one who is having this problem. Thank you for your reply!
