Smart Effector Tilt



  • Probably being an idiot, but having just set up a new smart effector (though not with magnetic arms...) it tilts up towards the closest tower.

    I assume that, as the arms are all same length, I'm either seeing the movement due to compatibility issue without the magnetic arms or I've poorly spaced the arms?

    TIA


  • administrators

    @tinkerbill can you post some pictures.



  • ![4_1527870104746_IMG_20180601_170637-min.jpg](Uploading 100%) ![3_1527870104746_IMG_20180601_170626-min.jpg](Uploading 100%) ![2_1527870104746_IMG_20180601_170614-min.jpg](Uploading 100%) ![1_1527870104746_IMG_20180601_170555-min.jpg](Uploading 100%) ![0_1527870104746_IMG_20180601_170546-min.jpg](Uploading 100%)

    Showing the spirit level in different positions relative to a tower. Final pic shows how I've avoided magnetic rods.
    If you want something specific, just say

    EDIT: ....I can only see the picture notifications... tried to use 'upload file' option... what do?
    EDIT2: Drive folder containing photos https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1XFckeTPgctmidWqsH-gkmm1hjfphliyE?usp=sharing



  • @TinkerBill - Hi,

    I'm a newbie to 3D printing.

    I eyeballed your photos:

    IMG_20180601_170637.jpg

    0_1527881366854_IMG_20180601_170637.jpg

    The image seems to depict a close up of a rod-end bearing U-Bracket that appears to be lifted up on the right corner as it appears to be resting on one of the feed-through pins of the white (other side of PCB) 'Print-Fan' connector. Is that an accurate depiction? If so, that's bad and likely one cause of the tilt problem. And it appears that bubble is off-center on that radiant as denoted by my inclusion of the white arrow for clarity.

    Are those U-Brackets metal or plastic?

    good luck

    3mm



  • @tinkerbill
    Some tilt is natural for deltas (and according to DC is very hard to eliminate).
    I wouldn't worry about it ...



  • Can't be quite sure from those photos... but it looks a awful lot to me like those ball ends are going to "jam" in certain positions. There does not appear to be enough "spacer" between the ball and the brackets.

    This is a picture of a completely different printer... but it shows the concept of a spacer extremely well.

    0_1527891700054_21d5094f-560e-4f2b-a8a5-16ad1da03755-image.png



  • Out of curiosity, why not use the magnetic arms?



  • @bpislife, et al,

    Did you visit his photos? Did you notice how those carriages are constructed? The mag-balls would be sticking out the side, and so the first issue is the spacing difference between the arms located at the carriages and those at the bottom... at the Smart-Effector. Then there is the matter of full radial motion constraint. Unless he fabricates an adapter for the carriages, I don't believe that he can implement the mag-ball arms directly without having to modify something somewhere.

    That one U-Bracket being lifted on the right side is very likely a problem, it appears to be lifted by a couple of millimeters and the bubble is definitely off center and its off-center on the ray-point in all the photos. The tilt axis. It seems likely that's the reason he took the closeup photo of it....?

    He might be able to remedy that matter by placing a small plastic washer/shim underneath each of the brackets, then recal for the new delta-radius...I'm by no means an expert in these matters. It'll be interesting to see what DC42 or Tony has to say about it all. Not intending to be rude to anyone here, as I've not been around long enough to know who the mechanical experts are in this community.

    3mm



  • @danal

    Hi, I appreciated your inputs to my questions.

    However, and that photo you posted is certainly one that is familiar to me.
    : ))

    Maybe its a British thing? I've noticed that many folks don't know the technical name for those bearings. They were, according to WikiPedia, invented in Germany and were originally known as being "Heim-Joints", however and there was another popular for them which I seem to have forgotten over the years. When I was doing US Military robotics engineering, they were known as "rod-end bearings". You screw'm into a plate, put a rotating shaft in them, supporting the shaft periodically along its length and turn stuff. American vendors such as McMaster-Carr and Stock Drive/SP, and in their catalogs name these mechanical components as being rod-end bearings. However the REBs are typically SAE rather than (my preference) metric. Folks get confused, the Chinese call them 'fish-eyes', ball-arms and all sorts of other monikers. But their technical name here in the US is, "rod-end' bearings. The units on that effector in the photo appear to be much better quality than those that I received in my kit. I know that you got your's running. I tip my hat.

    Cheers

    3mm



  • @3mm The smart effector was designed with magballs in mind which is why I asked my question. They have a superior backlash performance since there is no slop in the fish-eye to ball....I know I know the terminology is wrong, but you should still be able to understand what I am saying.

    https://www.duet3d.com/DeltaSmartEffector


  • administrators



  • @3mm The brackets are 3d printed resin, but have some flaws. The lift is basically just where i had to force the bracket off the build plate.
    Secondly, the bubble moves to the nearest edge, the effector tilt is not in only one axis. I'm taking that to mean it's a more general error than just one bracket.
    As for the magnetic option mentioned later, removing the brackets and using the provided carriage adapters allow the effector to be used with magnetic arms (as designed i believe)

    @Danal the brackets are shaped to allow full movement, I'd run into that problem on bracket v1...

    @BPisLife because the ones i saw advertised alongside the effector were quite expensive for a job hunting grad 😂😭

    @dc42 I'm wondering if the point made in carriage bearings being the same height is my problem. If the width between the carriage connections and effector connections are different the effector might twist? Thanks for the link, lots of good points for me to test 🙂



  • For sure, Huntleys Mag arms are expensive...but why dont build some yourself? some 6-8mm carbon rod..I used steel balls at the rods and magnets at the carrier and smart effector..constructing some 45° magnet holders is don e in some minutes. Costs me about 15-20€ and some time. ( I used nylon coated 12mm countersunk magnets)


  • administrators

    @tinkerbill said in Smart Effector Tilt:

    Secondly, the bubble moves to the nearest edge, the effector tilt is not in only one axis. I'm taking that to mean it's a more general error than just one bracket.

    Sounds like either you don't have the same bearing spacing at top and bottom of the rods, or the joints don't allow enough movement.



  • @bpislife

    Hi, I'm sorry you think that I was chastising you, trust me I wasn't. However, the reason I gave the explanation I gave, was, and is in my opinion, that the Smart-Effector was in fact designed for mag-ball integration, and that the reason that they were not used is because of the points I cited. Was I mistaken? Without a custom adapter plate at the top, won't the mag-ball centers be wider than at the bottom? From what I've read on the 'Net, that's a big no-no and I presumed that's the obvious reason mag-ball arms were not employed (aside from the added cost), even though the Smart-Effector was designed to use them. I was not trying to be rude, and I apologize. I am sorry.

    3mm
    ps.. 'Fish-eyes' vernacular is ok with me, I just thought maybe I could dispel a bit of the confusion I hear on the 'Net re; their authentic moniker.



  • @barracuda72 basically because I hadn't thought that far 😂 all just ebay stuff?

    @dc42 is bearing spacing essentially space between the ends of the two rods? So across carriage and across effector? Think the rods move ok, they certainly do effector end.



  • @3mm the smart effector comes with the adapters so the arms are perfectly spaced....either that or I bought the adapters along side it. Either way it makes the spacing perfect



  • @bpislife adapter is part of the package. Going to try printing brackets for them to see if it works, otherwise going with https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F132544828361



  • @tinkerbill said in Smart Effector Tilt:

    @barracuda72 basically because I hadn't thought that far 😂 all just ebay stuff?

    @dc42 is bearing spacing essentially space between the ends of the two rods? So across carriage and across effector? Think the rods move ok, they certainly do effector end.

    YES!!! Whatever the mechanism, heim-joint, mag ball, whatever, the "joint center" of the rods must be EXACTLY the same horizontal spacing at the effector and at the carriages. If not, several bad things happen, including effector tilt.

    You should really use the circuit board spacers that came with the effector circuit board... but for those very hard-headed of us who don't, here is one choice for a carriage:

    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2795329

    Note these are for HWIN style linear slides, and 9mm belts... but they are also openSCAD so can be adapted...



  • @danal I assumed that was the issue, I'll see if some brackets similar to my effector ones since the issue, otherwise I'll be looking for affordable (read budget😋) magnet rods


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